Acne Scar Treatments Archive 10
Return to the Acne Support Group in Cyberspace home pageJohn-- CO2 Laser Failure -- Laura, 02:31:05 01/14/03 Tue
John,
I read in your post that you had CO2 for your scars but had no improvement. I
am just curious, because I have heard and read so much about this laser
surgery being extremely effective on depressed scars. I have consulted two
plastic surgeons, both of whom assured me that if I did the laser my scars
would be gone. I am not doubting your story, just wondering if this too is all
hype. From what I could see in the doctors' own before and after photos, the
recovery period looked pretty gruesome, and I'd hate to put myself through
this for nothing. Could you please tell me, did your plastic surgeon offer any
explanation to you for the failure? Did he or she offer to try again (at his
or her expense)? Thanks for any more info.
Please reread my previous message -- Brandon, 00:57:40 01/14/03 Tue
I took issue ONLY with PK's exaggeration about the number of people with whom
she had communicated about needling. That is very clear in my previous post. I
was NOT saying she was being untruthful about her own results.She originally said she had communicated with SEVERAL people from THIS BOARD
who had originally said they saw improvement then didn't bother to come back
and post when their results diminished. This was an exaggeration and a little
bit too dramatic. If she wants to report her own results, fine. But there was
no need for her to make up a ficticious hoarde of people to back her up. When
pressed, she was able to come up with one person, a person who had never even
posted on this board before.Now, please go back and read my previous post, then re-read this one. I have
no problem with PK reporting her own results, but I DO have a problem with her
making up results of non-existant people.I have not undergone needling myself and I have no reason to "defend" people
who have done it. What I do defend is an interest in keeping this board
unbiased and genuine. Thank you.
Needling -- Thankyou Spainiard, 22:59:38 01/13/03 Mon
Spainiard, thankyou for your cadided honesty. I have had a few hypotrophic
scars cut out in the past and they have looked great for the first couple of
weeks , then allah kazam there they are again. i want to thank you for your
post as I want people to see both views of these new miracle curesWhat worries me though is people that are performing these procedures like
tattoo artists and make up artists surely there has got to be a big risk in
doing it this way. as once said here this is your face it is not like a block
of wood you can throw out if it makes it worse
skin needling, people attacking PK -- Spaniard, 22:43:34 01/13/03 Mon
First of all, I am the one who PK was referring to as someone who she was in
touch with and had similar disappointing results. 2nd of all I find it
disgusting that people call PK a liar and question PK's credibility because
she tries to warn people.Having said that, I had skin needling done by a plastic surgeon in Europe who
learned the technique from Dr. Fernandes himself and is also a distributor of
his Environ products.
My experience: I have had a quite large scar needled and it seemed for a
couple of weeks that it improved drastically. I followed all of plastic
surgeon's advise regarding aftercare. However as time went by the scar
reappeared. To make it worse the skin in that area is even more sensitive now
then it was before. Now 4 months post surgery I can say that the scar hasn't
changed at all. neither in texture nor in depth.As someone already pointed out, for some people it might work for some it
might not. It is the same thing with subcision or with Erbium or C02. You hear
both great success stories and horrible accounts of such procedures being
total failures. I guess it has all to do with the nature of the scar, its
depth, its location, whether it is mature etcAnd yes, there is little evidence so far on the net that skin needling does
work for scars. It is mostly used for wrinkles. Just check all the sites that
mention skin needling. It has also been reported on this board that a
permanent make up artist was offering this for a while and now stopped because
of mixed results. So there you go. PK and myself had disappointing results and
some of you had good results. That's the reality.It is better to be a little bit more cautious than to believe that skin
needling is the new messiah and having it done without thinking it through.So this is my side of the story. We are all in the same boat.
Denise - Clarification -- John, 22:29:12 01/13/03 Mon
Hi Denise, I would just like to clarify what i meant by saying scars were
permanent. What i meant was that scars can be improved, and I have had many
good results from my treatments but the scars are still and will always be
there, even though their appearance has been reduced. Since they have improved
I have found much more confidence.The point I was trying to make though was that not for people to get their
hopes up. Also please to anyone see a fully board associated Plastic surgeon.
Traetments I have done with dertamtoligists, or "miracle cure" cosmetic
surgeons, for me have done nothing. I have from a plastic surgeon, though had
good results. He himself bags out all these other methods. He told me four
years ago that the Laser was a wate of time and in my view he has proven to be
correct.I am only saying this to all of you not to hurt you but to help you based on
my own experiences
Gertrude -- Pat, 20:10:07 01/13/03 Mon
Thanks for getting back to us, you said to drop you a mail-what is your
address?
Everyone...let's be fair -- Denise1, 19:20:53 01/13/03 Mon1. I don't believe that scars are "permanent", with no recourse or chance of
treating successfully.2. I truly think that PK was just letting people know his/her experience.
Though I disagree with PK on one or two points, the one being this. Dr.
Camirand, I believe, was referring to the fact that the procedure was
experiemental on ACNE SCARS. The websites speaking of this technique talk
about it working on lines and wrinkles, with no mention of treating acne scars
at all.3. I don't know about PK's previous treatments or what PK's skin is like;
could be overly sensitive, could have had other treatments that thinned the
skin too much, maybe would have had better success in aftercare with a copper
peptide product. PK may have scars that are too deep to treat well with this
procedure, I DON'T KNOW!4. I've heard of way too many success stories with needling to dismiss it as
some kind of fad or whatever. It may work for some, not for others.5. I hate it when the board turns into bickering.
This isn't directed at any one person at all. I believe that everyone is just
trying to make their points with credibility, facts, and personal experience.
I know when I was being attacked by a rather immature psychopath, I was quite
shocked that the "moderators" didn't remove the posts or ban the offending
parties. And what cracked me up about when I was being attacked by the psycho
was that they said I was a psycho who was "jealous". I was rofl
thinking..."JEALOUS OF WHAT? SOMEONE ELSE'S ACNE SCARS?!" hehe.Anyway, I truly think that PK was just trying to perhaps make the case for
spot treatment, and was just telling his/her story. I mean, I think about the
poor souls who have recently posted about bad subcision results. Man, that
STINKS! But that doesn't mean that subcision doesn't work for anyone.O.K.....deeeeeeeeeeep breathe. Let's try to just hear people out and respond
with grace and charity.Cheers everyone, and ~peace~
Isolagen -- MG, 16:55:10 01/13/03 Mon
The web site for Isolagen is: www.isolagen.com
Isolagen -- MG, 16:52:25 01/13/03 MonIs there anyone from England or Australia on this board.
If so, has any of you tried or heard of Isolagen. Does it work? I live in the
U.S. I talked to an Isolagen rep who said that it should be available in the
U.S. in mid 2003. I am planning to try it for my acne scars on my cheeks and
temples.
IPL/CT -- Getrude, 16:21:31 01/13/03 Mon
Dear Sarah and Pat,
Sorry for late reply. I had deep scars before using all the products. What
obagi did is to clear the skin but as u are cleared, somehow your scars seem
so much deeper.I started using skin biology products in Aug last year and went for IPL/CT in
Oct. I use exfo cream and tri-reduction. Frankly this stuff on copper really
works. 'Do drop me a fail and hear from soon
JOHN H _ DOCTOR REFERAL -- sarah, 12:46:13 01/13/03 Mon
John:
Please help - I am in the EU with the same type of scarring. can you please
tell me who did your laser and in which country?Thanks
Sarah
London
oh no -- jack, 08:26:21 01/13/03 Mon
oh no! i was being stupid and picking at a zit, broke the skin, and now
there's a hole there. if you look at it from the side, you can definitely see
a hole going in. it's still raw so there's some liquid filling into it.is there anything i can do lessen the chances of it turning into an ice pick
scar? i feel so stupid for picking at it. i never learn!
Horrah for John -- Felix, 04:46:32 01/13/03 Mon
I agree with what John just wrote, and I guess that were not the only ones who
agree with what PK is saying here. I haven't posted in a while and came on to
see whats new and read all these messages. Someone was saying that PKs tone
was bad, but when reading her first messge, she seemed to me to be sharing
what had hapened with her and if it really can make her scars even worse, she
wanted to warn others. You bet I want to know about stuff like this before
trying something like that then. Then others start to jump on her saying that
maybe she did it herself (no) or maybe not good enough aftercare (no) and
finally, one guy says that shes lying. I dont blame her for being offend! what
kind of respose is that to someone trying to help others? read her message
shes saying best of luck to everyone and to be careful.John says a good point, where are all the photos for needling if its so good?
and if the doctor who made this up cant say anyting more good about it that
sure seems fishy to me.i'm going to try maybe erbium laser or a microdermabrasion but definiely not
going to do needling until someone can show me some photos and stop blaming
people who are trying to save the rest of us some money or heartache! im not
saying needling doesnt work for some people and that is what PK said in
several messaegs as well. lets just not attack people who have something to
say.
In defense of PK -- John, 01:44:51 01/13/03 Mon
Listen this is a terrible problem that effects everyone on this site but I
honestly believe there is nothing that can really help with scar revision, i
should know, I have had two dermabrasions and CO2 laser. I believe that
sometimes people want so badly to believe that their scars have improved that
they actually believe they have when in actual fact they have not. But you
have to be honest and look under the worst light possible to see this.
Therefore, in my opinion, i can see what PK is tryng to say is don't count
your hopes on any scar revision , as if your scars are serious you are only
going to be disapointed.Also if this Neddling is so good why will someone not
post pictures, I know if I had discovered something that was so great I would
be so deliously happy I would want to show everybody, to help themIn my opinion and from my experience the best solution is a filler, for those
who have tried Collagen will know this works well but it is only temporary. I
then had Silicone inserted which provided the same results as Collagen which
were permanent, very effective for deep scarring, what I would call real
scarring. I must say though, that in my opinion some people are overreacting
to their scars, i saw the pictures of that guy who had the laser done and to
me he never had a problem in the first place and I suspect those with seriour
scars, are the ones not getting good results no matter what treatment they are
using and one therfore has to accept that unless there is a significant
technological breakthrough one is stuck with them.I would also like to add though that I believe scarring is a physcological
problem. If you think that acne scarring is affecting you achieveing things in
your life, this is the wrong attitude. I have never had any problems in having
a relationship despite my scars, with attractive girls and some girls have
actually said they add character, one girl I went out with for a year did not
even ask me where I got them from. Therefore dont let them upset to the point
of becoming obsessed about them as you may find that it is you that is more
concerned about them than anyone else. I know this sounds easier than it
seems!
PK -- Karen, 01:19:09 01/13/03 Mon
PK,
I think that you are getting a little worked up over this for no reason, we
are all after the same thing, here. Of course this is still an experimental
procedure. Of course it would be very smart to do a test patch first. I think
that some people are getting upset because of the tone that you took, and
because you seem to be trying to make a procedure that has been very helpful
to us and others seem worthless, which it is not. Apparently, it is not
helpful for EVERYONE. That is not at all surprising, I have not read about one
single scar treatment that helped EVERYONE. It is sad that it did not help
you, I am sorry for that. But the fact is that on this board and others we
have more people who have been very happy with their results than people who
have been unhappy with their results. The one scar that I had done 3 months
ago is looking MUCH better than it used to. From this board, Happy Needler,
myself, Tom, and Marc have all been very pleased, MONTHS after we did the
procedure. We are just offering encouraging information on something that has
improved our skin pretty drastically. Also, I would like to add that the woman
who sent you that email said that her scar was very deep, and she suspected
that was why the needling did not work. I, myself, have admitted that the
deepest scars saw little improvement, so that email is not at all surprising
to me. In fact, it confirms what I have seen for myself, and is not so
different from what you would expect from any resurfacing procedure.Also, I think it is unfair for you to classify people (and I am guessing
myself) as 'wed to certain techniques, even in spite of other's poor results.'
Nobody here is married to anything, we are just happy with the results that we
have seen from this technique and think it could be very helpful to others
here. Our time is very valuable, as well, and we are not here to harm any
souls. You find any scar reduction technique, and you will have people who
have had bad experiences with it. Would you classify anybody who is happy with
their results on anything as 'wed to a certain technique, even in spite of
other's poor results?' If that is the case, then I would have to classify
yourself as one who is soured to a certain technique, even in spite of other's
wonderful results. Of the people who have posted here, we have seen more who
have been happy with their procedures (even months after they had it done)
than people who have not been happy with their procedures. The only poster who
has reported poor results on this board is yourself. Marc, Tom, Happy Needler,
and myself have all been very happy, months after the procedure. After the
swelling had gone down. I am not sure about Kim, I have not heard from her in
a while. That is just on this board, I have read posts from people on other
boards who were happy after months, too.I can tell from your first posts that you are very frustrated by your
scarring... I am very sorry and really hope that you find a resolution. That's
all I want for everyone on this board, they are horrible things to suffer.
Now, "suspect claims" rolling in from others..... -- PK, 00:09:09 01/13/03 Mon
OH, I couldn't resist:Gosh, Brandon, just saw a post from "Anna", wherein she reports the following
input from André Camirand, MD, the very doctor who developed the needling
technique you ardently defend:"Thank you very much for your e-mail dated November 10, 2002.
Unfortunately, it is too early to say. This is still an experimental
technique.Sincerely yours,
André Camirand, MD"
So, THIS is all he can say in response to her questions about the
effectiveness and specifics of needling? You've got to be kidding! From the
FOUNDER championing this technique...."too early to say...still an
experimental technique." ?????????????So Brandon, are you now going to hunt down Dr. Camirand and write posts
accusing him of "Suspect claims"? How about Anna? Is she also part of the
apparent Anti-needling ferver sweeping this forum?Get a grip, Brandon. WHEN THE FOUNDER AND CHAMPION, HIMSELF, OF THIS VERY
TECHNIQUE CALLS IT EXPERIMENTAL AND CAN OFFER NO VIABLE ANSWERS TO A PATIENT'S
LEGITIMATE QUESTIONS, YOU HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO BASIS FOR YOUR ACCUSATORY ATTACKS
ON A POSTER WHO SIMPLY POSTED HER UNSATISFACTORY RESULTS.The facts speak for themselves. Or are Anna and Dr. Camirand also creating
"suspect claims", all for the sinister motive of "undermining",as you called
it, the hopes and dreams of other future needlers.... What a joke.Glad it has worked for you and others. It hasn't for me and others. End of
story. Don't attack those who post something other than perfect results for
the benefit of others.
Final response from PK -- PK, 23:40:07 01/12/03 Sun
My, my. Such acrid accusations, thank you, "Brandon". SO, my claims are now
"suspect?" Let me explain something: as an attorney who bills at 375 per hour,
maybe it's a bit hard to comprehend, but my time is valuable, and no, I'm not
going to waste even more of my time in trying to read thru the myriad past
archived posts to find those who had at first reported good needling results,
and then when later contacted (either on this forum or other boards), reported
different results. AND, for the record, that is not accusing others of being
dishonest, as you accuse: it reports that results differ and at times, given
more healing time, the initial results were better than later reported.Because I remembered the name of the person who initially reported (to me, at
least) a 100% improvement, and then when later contacted, reported about 5%,
and am copying her last message to me below. Something else we understand in
law, Brandon: there are issues of confidentiality, privacy and liability which
preclude citing other's names unless specifically and in writing approved by
that party. So, of course I'm not going to be citing names left and right.
That's just basic Contract Law 101. The posters were both on this forum and
acne.org.How utterly pathetic that others, such as you, Brandon, become so critical and
accusatory when others post anything other than positive results. DO you think
that this is what I WANTED, no results? And what possible motive would anyone
have for posting anything OTHER than their own, subjective experience? In law
we understand that there must be a motive proven for any such questionable
act, such as you ascribe (PK's claims are "suspect"?...) yet, quite obviouly,
any rational and UNBIASED person reading my intial post would understand that
this is simply a scar sufferer posting her experiences for the benefit of
others.AND any rational and unbiased person reading the copied email message below,
will also surmise that needling is not uniformly effective for everyone,
including her AND me.Why this is apparenly so difficult to understand and the subject of such
hostility from others, is quite amazing. As for me, I'm done with this forum
and onto a productive use of my time: so much for having tried to help others.
For those who can read something without bias, here is the copied email
referenced above:I read your post on voy.com. And I must say that i was confronted with the
same devastating news this summer when i went to a plastic surgeon who
specializes in scar revision. The problem is that those doctors only use
aggressive treatments and thus that's the only sollution they see..or in our
case none.
Having said that I am in the same fucked up situation. Though slightly
different. In the end I gave up on needling because it didn't seem to do a
damn thing. Maybe 5% improvement and that is ridiculous. I am guessing the
reason for this, and that might be true in your case aswell, is that my scar
is too deep.
As I already told you before, I tried restylane to fill up the scar a couple
of months ago. But it didn't do a thing. Well it was swollen for like 2weeks.
First of all I think I don't react to well to restylane and that was done way
too early. my scar was still not soft enough to be elevated. I went to see
another doctor a week ago. He told me to wait a couple of months and then
either fill it up with fat and dermabrade it slightly or excise it and stitch
it up so that in the end it will be a relatively small excision scar, which
shouldn't be indented. I know both sollutions don't sound too good. Especially
since your scar resulted from dermabrasion. But hear me out....mine resulted
from Erbium. So there you go. I had a relatively small scar from an excision,
that was uneven in texture because it wasn't done right and because i took
accutane, although I never really had acne.....go me!! However the Erbium
laser went too deep, which left me with a wide hole in my nose.
PK, your claims are very suspect -- Brandon, 23:08:59 01/12/03 Sun
PK, in your first post, you claimed that you had spoken to "several" people
from this board who had been needled and that "they" told you it hadn't worked
as well as they thought. When pressed to explain who all these people were,
you have now reduced it to one woman, a woman you refuse to name. If she
posted here, why not use her screen name? In fact, there was no such woman on
this board, I have read all the needling posts and have never seen anyone
claim 100% improvement.It is very unfair of you to undermine people who are posting their successes
here, acting like they are somehow not representing the truth of their
experiences. It is even more unfair of you to call them "defensive" after you
have behaved in such a manner.I'm very sorry that none of the things you have tried have given you the
results you desire, but please refrain from undermining others for whom some
of these things are working very well. It's perfectly acceptable for you to
post what things have failed you, we DO need to hear both sides of the story.
But please refrain from implictations that others are not being honest about
the results they have seen. If you truly believe this board should be balanced
with both sides of the story, you must allow the successful people to post
unmolested!And if it were up to John H., I guess we would just shut this board down and
all get erubium, LOL!
Needling -- Anna, 23:07:56 01/12/03 Sun
In defense of PK, I feel I have to share something. When I was looking into
needling I E-mailed Dr. Lazarus who referred me to Dr. Camirand. I think we
need to remember that needling is an experimental procedure and everyone's
skin is different. Please see the below response.
_____________________________________________
Dear Anna,Thank you very much for your e-mail dated November 10, 2002.
Unfortunately, it is too early to say. This is still an experimental
technique.Sincerely yours,
André Camirand, MD
__________________________________________________________
> Hello Dr. Camirand,
> I am a patient suffering from depressed scar on my nose from an injury. I
contacted Dr. Lazarus and he suggested I contact you. I am trying to obtain a
technique manual for a local tattoo artist who works through a plastic
surgeon's office who is willing to try this technique on me. A few questions
which have arisen are:
> 1. Is this a good technique for depressed scars or more for keloid like
lesions?> 2. When needling does the practioner needle only the scar or, in this case
needle the entire cosmetic unit, the nose?
>
> Is there a good treatment guide available for the practioner?
>
> Thank you so much for your time!
>
> Sincerely,
> Anna
To Denise from PK -- PK, 22:29:06 01/12/03 Sun
Denise, thank you for your message. Having read extensively about needling
before having it done, and seeing a trained professional, we both knew all
about keeping it moist afterwards. Kept medicated vaseline products AND
VItamin A creams on it for more than a MONTH. Looked like a freak, but did so,
all to no avail.AFter a month, kept Vitamin A on and less greasy type of vaseline, and on top
of all, used sun screens extensively (40 SPF)Yeah, unfortuntaly, the practitioner and I did everything right. This
technique simply isn't everything it's cracked up to be, according to a number
of others, INCLUDING past patients of this needling expert. Hard to debate
that.Thanks for your reply.
A question for PK -- Denise1, 21:52:47 01/12/03 Sun
PK, I was wondering what type of ointment you used after your needling. Did
you keep the needled area moist, or no? I know I've read that the aftercare
will determine what kind of result you have. That guy who posts under "Yumi"
on another board says that after his first needling experience, he didn't care
for it properly and didn't have near the result he did after his second
needling. According to Yumi, the moister you keep the area, the better result.I was thinking that if you had severe red marks, maybe you weren't given good
information about aftercare.Just thinking out loud here as to why you had red marks and worse
scars.......that would be very disappointing, I would think.
TO BOB from PK -- PK, 21:39:55 01/12/03 Sun
Bob, I very much appreciate the time and effort invested in spelling out your
vitamin and health regime. I will study closely what you've said, and if
there's anything which I can use to agument my already-optimum regime, I'll
certainly do so. Guess that Pickart himself told me that, after 4 months, that
it hadn't worked, that pretty much ended my attempts with CP. But thank you
again.I'm delighted for you in your successful results. That's terrific.
PK again -- PK, 21:35:10 01/12/03 SunGOsh, in re-reading the former post questioning my input regarding needling,
I'm a little surprised that someone can tell ME, just what MY experience has
been with needling:"It would seem that you did it to yourself, especially since you report
"months of red spots." As I have said before, there is no way you can
duplicate, by hand, the precision in coverage and depth of a tattoo gun. And
there are no red spots that last for months when you have it professionaly
done."Oh, really? Given that I paid more than a hundred dollars, and drove more than
an hour's time to consult with a trained, professional permanent makeup artist
who TEACHES these techniques for a living (hardly "Doing this myself"), AND
ended up with red spots which have lasted for months AND scars worse off than
before, I just find it incredulous that someone completely ignorant of my
situation would be telling me just what "my" situation supposedly is. Please!Those espousing certain techniques for scar revision shouldn't become
defensive when others share experiences other than their own. What possible
"motive" would I have, but to inform and advise others regarding treatment
options, given my own personal experiences AND the admissions of the very
people (doctors, past posters, etc.) who THEMSELVES admit that these
techniques are a mixed bag in terms of results. Trust me, I have far better
things to do that spend my time writing posts for the benefit of others, with
the only hope of helping others make INFORMED and balanced decisions re scar
revision methods....That's it from me. Hope that my efforts have done something other than offend
those defensively wed to certain techniques, even in spite of other's poor
results.
PK anwering questions -- PK, 21:18:19 01/12/03 Sun
I'll try to answer the questions posted, may miss some:
First, NO, I did not and would never attempt to do self-needling on my face.
Paid a licensed professional permanent makeup artist who ALSO had experience
with needling for scars. SHE herself, admitted that the past results were "
mixed". I can't recall those who wrote at one time touting results, then wrote
later, or to whom I spoke later saying that is wasn't all it was hoped to be,
but one woman in particular, who emailed me individually at first reported
"100 %" reversal, then upon contactign her again later, said it hadn't worked
at all. She was a very nice person, trying to help me, I'm not going to give
her name out over this forum, but suffice it to say that this has been my
experience.IN regards to CP products and my overall health: I am 4o years old, am in
optimum health, have studied nutrition extensively, take daily supplements and
eat a high-protien, yet balanced diet and work out with my trainer 4 times a
week. Wish I could attribute CP products not working to something in my diet,
but I know that's not the case.I appreciate everyone's input: no need for anyone to be upset by what I've
reported: given the fact that BOTH Dr. Pickart AND the permanent makeup artist
advised me that patients received mixed results (read: it doesn't work for
many), what I am reporting is obvioulsy not an isolated experience.
CZ32 -- Denise1, 20:44:31 01/12/03 Sun
I had been using The New You up until about a month ago when I had to start
"prepping" my skin for my TCA peel. I had been using it for a good 5-6 months
straight up until then. I enjoy the product. It's a great "peel" without all
of the side effects of an acid peel.Does it remove scars? I have no clue. I don't think I used it long enough to
know for certain. Plus, with all of the other things I've done, it's hard to
tell for certain. But overall I like the product and found that it smooths and
tones the skin and gives it clarity and removes dead skin cells just as well
as an acid peel. I like it very much.That's really all I can say about it.
PK -- bob, 20:21:42 01/12/03 Sun
I've been using the tri-reduction combo package(mine contains the copper
peptide and retinol in one bottle and the 2% salicylic acid (exfol cream) in
the other bottle. After 8 days of using the combo I'm seeing something
occurring. The depressed and pitted scars are getting a pinkish hue and I
believe are not looking quite as deep. They are still very much there so I'll
have to report later if things are going as positive as they seem to be. The
main reason why I'm writing this is because I was trying to figure out why you
might not respond to anything. It seems almost as though your body just isn't
putting the collagen in there for your treated scars. Do you take vitamin
supplements? I'm not talkng about the weak one a day stuff; but rather
something very strong from a vitamin/herb store. Perhaps a superstrong vitamin
regimine would be worth a try when you are doing treatment. Of course you need
to research herbs before you take them. Most are quite safe. For instance,
most people can take ginseng but some can't. I am one of those that can't. It
makes my heart speed up too much. And there is a limit on how much to take in
some vitamins. Unless a person knows a lot it can be best to buy everything
that's in one bottle and just contains vitamins and no herbs and is really
strong. It's just a thought as to what could possibly help you respond to
treatments. I take some strong supplements and never get colds or flu anymore
since I started taking them 16 years ago. I'm 46 now and up until I was 30 I
was getting a severe cold every year and the flu every year without exception.
I think the 1000mg of vitamin c a day is responsible for that protection.
Anyway, I am responding in some way to this tri-reduction combo and though
it's too early to be quite sure, I think it's positive. I can feel a lot of
sensation occurring within the scars especially after I put the copper
peptide(mine contains retinol mixed with the copper peptide)on. I don't feel
as quite as much sensation from the 2% salicylic acid. THe skin biology site
says that if improvement seems slow to move up to a stronger acid like the 30%
glyoric acid which is about 3 times as strong as the salicylic acid. Did you
try that?
Answers to all -- John H., 19:40:49 01/12/03 Sun
Mikey: yes i had i VERY positive experience. Its now 7 weeks after the surgery
and final results are not yet obtainable but i can judge where things go. Some
detaols you can find on 2 previous posts (use the find tool of browser using
my name to find them). My main problem is ice- pick scarring not very deep and
small dimaterer, but many. You must know that the type of scarring DOESNT
matter. Only the depth matters in resurfacing.Ken: your first step should be resurfacing. Dont bother with filling yet. Also
"cut and stitch surgery" is not very good for you as the scars are many.
"Unfortunately" only aggresive surgery will yiel benefits.JB: the remodeling/maturation is the last phase of wound healing. It initiates
at about 21 days after wounding and lasts about 12 months. Some give 18 months
or even 24 months. theoretically your organism will try forever to fix the
scar but practically things fade out after 2 years. The more close you are in
the event the more intense the remodeling is ofcourse.If the initial
improvement is A say 50% from the "shaving" then the remodeling will give
another 15-30% more improvement-this is practical.Maria: Im not any kind of expeption. But do you know many with no problems
coming to these boards? These forums are magnyfying the negative side. My
scarring is moderate.Did i missed someone. sorry if i did.
Some general considerations you must all keep in mind:
Scar revision is either surgical or with topicals.TOPICALS:
The only ingredients clinically proven to help scarring are Tretinoin and
Adapalene (forms of Vitamin-A). All the other are simply Bullshit. There are
many things however to help you skin in general and by this viewpoint when you
keep a balanced environment on your skin you allow it to function and heal
better. These include antioxidants, exfoliants, moisturizers, sunscreens,
cleansers, toners. Complete analysis of the above is not possible here. It is
good to use these products but dont wait to do things for your scars really.
Many here could say the opposite but the truth is the above. I could say many
more but i dont have the time.SURGERY:
There are 3 main types currently: Resurfacing,filling,cut and stitch surgery.1. Filling (replacing lost volume). Thermal, Mechanical, Substances.
1a. Thermal: Cooltouch,Smoothbeam,Nlite.
You thermally injure only the dermis so by triggering the automatic wound
healing response the resulting scar (dermal) will give a natural augmentation.
(nlite hits blood vessels instead). These are a natural filler by
scarification.1b. Mechanical: Subcision.
Here again you scar the dermis by a mechanical way this time (with the
needle). One extra benefit of this method is the known by all cutting of the
fibrotic attachments.1c: Substances : This category includes too many products and methods. The
optimal filler is yet unavailable. Isolagen is not an effective solution cause
the collagen must be produced by your organism in order to stay. Fat
transplant seems to be the most promising method so far. I ll not discuss
these more.--comments: Here you start with "natural ways" eg subcision, cooltouch etc and
if the pit is very deep you then add a substance.2. "cut and stitch" surgery. Excision, Punch elevation/release/grafting.
Mainly for individual defects altough serial techniques can be possible.
Excision: cut and discard the defect.suture the hole.
Punch release: This is for small in diameter defects (ice-picks, small pits).
These defects have also fibrotic attachments to their sides. By inserting a
punch around the defect you release the attachments and allow the defect to
contract (2-6 months) No ring scar remains.Punch elevation. Performed simultaneously with the release for the same
defects cuts the attachments below (like subcision) allowing to elevate.Punch grafting: If the bottom of the scar is not like the surrounding healthy
tissue elevation will not create an optimal result. So here we have a small
skin transplantation.
3. Resurfacing - chemical,mechanical,laser.Chemical:
superficial: mainly glycolic acid
medium: mainly TCA
deep: mainly phenol. Some newer versions with buffers exist (like exoderm) but
the have all the pros and cons of a phenol peel- simply they are phenol peels.
Mechanical.
Dermabrasion the most popular. Diamond fraise (for beginners mainly), Wire
brush (the best, only for experienced cause have dangers), Serrated wheel (old
technique). Since dermabrasion causes blood microdroplets in the air with the
spread of HIV some doctors turned to dermasanding with sandpaper. The negative
of this is that abrasion deeper than the reticular dermis is not possible
since blood wets the sandpaper. further abrasion many times is then made by
applying a peel directly. Other mechanical: using the dermatome or the
scalpel. Dermabrasion is the best.Lasers:
Co2 and Erbium. Difference is what i wrote in a previous post. You can reach
the same depth with Erbium as with Co2 if you want and so you ll have the same
results.
Comments: As i wrote earlier and some narrow-headed (sorry) cant understand is
that all methods of resurfacing are the same thing. All that matters is how
deep you go. By going deeper and deeper you discard more and more "damaged"
layers. Its that simple. You dont need to go to Israel (HA HA) to loose some
dermal layers!!!!! The key is to go deep enough to have visible results but
not too deep to allow the remaining skin to provide a beautiful healing. Any
textural alteration mean that the healing wasnt optimal and practically this
is scarring. Resurfacing is one of the most simple, smart, and effective
methods (or the most) that exist today. You dont have to wait for future
methods. Also exept for very deep resurfacing (to the middle reticular dermis)
your skin will not thin.(and this was something i didnt know last year!).
Needling of course is not resurfacing. It falls in the first category of
mechanical volume replacing. Ok you also "irritate" the scar with the needle
but you cant "irritate" it as with a laser or a dermabrader. Too many ignorant
people however think that they discovered a miracle. HA HA HA. I checked
another board and what they are all about is needling!! Are they crazy or what
the fuck????
With resurfacing you do 2 things:1. Sanding down the skin. By this you get rid of some superficial scars and
the ugly defined edges of the deeper scars (if there are any defined edges).
Also you reduce the depth of the deeper scars and practically you blend the
undamaged surrounding skin with the damaged. So if you have any scars like
ice-picks you will see great benefits (DESPITE THE CONTRARY BELIEF). This is
the initial A improvement i was reffering to.2. Rewounding the scars themselves. By doing this you give a second oppotunity
to the scars to heal better (by elevating/filling in) along with the blending.
This is gradual and it depends on the remodeling of collagen. This is the A/3
to A/2 improvement i was reffering to. This is how it happens. By day 7-8 you
must see a filling of the whole area (not by the swelling of course) this is
new collagen that came in the site. By day 21 remodeling starts. What that
means? You all know that almost every cell have a life cycle. This is the case
with collagen also. When collagen metabolism starts (destruction and
formation) at 3 weeks the new collagen that replaces the old becomes more
cross-linked. (collagen connect to fibrils and fibers making this perfect mesh
- like the cables of a suspension bridge). This is a slow process (the
remodeling) but it never reach the quality of the natural skin (So the reduced
tensile strength to 70-80% of the initial skin). Some here think that scar
tissue is damaged tissue and must be replaced by healthy tissue and so on. HA
HA HA. Scar forms in every case you are injured (expect if you are a fetus,
then regenaration occurs). the more ugly the scar the more unorganized the
collagen meshwork. You cant push the collagen metabolism by putting any
topical (eg copper peptides HA HA HA HA). If you could do it you would disturb
the equilibrium of collagen formation and destruction and you would make harm
no good. Wound healing is a very complicated process and in most cases you
want to leave nature make its job. I said it earlier: you only can rewound
your skin.
I dont know if you understood what i wrote above. I dont speak English very
good. I live in the European Union. Its time to go back to my PhD now which i
left behind. I found the solution to a problem i thought impossible to cure
for years. I dont think i am any kind of exception. Good doctors exist who can
help very much. The problem is how to find them. To this point i find myself
very LUCKY.Ok i think thats enough. I dont know if post anything again so please dont ask
any more questions. All i wanted to say is that there is actually hope to a
very difficult problem.Bye,bye.
PK, Denise1 -- Karen, 18:33:11 01/12/03 Sun
PK,
I agree very much with Happy Needler. I did a test spot, and I waited for just
over 2 months after I did it to try it again, and my results got much better,
certainly not worse. That happened just as Dr. Camirand, Dr. Lazarus, and Dr.
Des Fernandes said it would. As I have mentioned a few times, I was actually
disappointed with the results of the needling at first. My face was not
swollen at all after 2 weeks - in fact, my scars looked virtually the same as
before the needling. So it was not swollen, at all. It was only after some
time that the filling in of the scars occurred.Furthermore, it does not make sense that this should not work for most people,
if it is done right. Logically speaking, it just makes no sense to me. I think
that most all of us here know that 3 things need to occur in order to get rid
of a scar.1.) Break up the scar tissue
2.) Reinjure the skin, so that a healing process will occur and collagen will
be simulated.
3.) When the skin is reinjured, give it a proper healing environment.Skin needling is a good way to accomplish all of these ends. This is a
technique that is becoming somewhat popular with cosmetic artists, and from
what I have heard, the ones who are doing it are getting a steady stream of
business, and repeat business, at that. Some doctors use this as a standard
practice for skin resurfacing, and I doubt very much that they would do this
if is were ineffective. They report that they get repeat business, and that
the results are better and better with each time. Although, this is a very new
procedure, and that is why I had a test patch done, I was very pleased with my
results. I do think that it wouldn't be a bad idea for anyone who had this
done to get a test patch, if they can. Better safe than sorry, and it does do
a bit to ease one's nerves for the full face procedure.I agree with Happy Needler, if you say that you have heard from people on this
board saying the results were fleeting, we would like to know who so that we
can talk with them ourselves regarding what you have told us they said.
Between her and myself, we have the email addresses of all who have posted on
this board about needling, so we can contact them that way. I am sorry that
you have had a bad experience.Denise - hey, no problem! If you have any specific questions, or would like to
talk about when and where you are going, shoot me an email!Karen:)
Georgia Abrams M.D. -- Mayfield, 18:31:56 01/12/03 Sun
I remember that a couple of people who used to post on this board had
subcision done by Georgia Abrams who is located in Saratoga, CA. Both of you
were happy with the initial results from the subcision. Are either of you
around to post and let me know how the subcision areas are doing today? Did
the improvement stay? Did you go back to be subcised by Dr. Abrams again?
Thank you
Happy Needler -- Beth-1, 17:57:35 01/12/03 Sun
Thanks for the update on your needling progress. I am so glad to hear that
your good results are long lasting--and hopefully permanent. Keep bringing us
these periodic updates so that we know the long term results of your needling
treatment(s). Beth-1
PK - re. your remarks -- Happy Needler, 16:55:26 01/12/03 Sun
Please clarify what you meant by "DId needling on chin area and after months
of red spots where it was done, healed WORSE OFF than before." Did you do this
needling on yourself, by hand, or was it done by a professional with a tattoo
gun? It would seem that you did it to yourself, especially since you report
"months of red spots." As I have said before, there is no way you can
duplicate, by hand, the precision in coverage and depth of a tattoo gun. And
there are no red spots that last for months when you have it professionaly
done.Please also clarify this statement: "I had contacted several of those people
who posted here OR who had emailed me individually about scarring, saying that
it was some "miracle" cure for indented scars, AND when checking back in with
them after a couple months, they sadly reported that the after the swelling
had subsided completely, either the scar hadn't improved at all, or maybe 5%."
Where these people who have posted here, namely Tom Adams, Marc, Kim, Karen or
myself? I have been in contact with most of these people and they have not
reported to me any loss of improvement. For myself, it has been two months
since I had my first area, the chin, needled and I am still seeing
improvements. None of my scars that went away have come back and others
continue to fill in.
To Eric from PK -- PK, 16:34:19 01/12/03 Sun
Eric, thanks for your input regarding copper peptides and the Dr. Pickart, who
created the Skin Biology products. During the time that I was using these
products (more than 4 months), I called him personally and spoke with him
about my "progress" or lack thereof. He confirmed that I was doing everything
"right", using correct products (exfol serum followed by Tri Reduction Cream),
etc. and eventually advised me that "well, sometimes this works for people,
sometimes it doesn't. I don't 'know why." (that's an exact quote).I asked to see photos of patients - before and after- pretty routine fare for
anyone touting acne revision qualities of their product: he said he didn't
have any????????In any case, I've never said nor implied that Dr. Pickart is pushing a hoax -
Elcina is an entirely different product and has nothing to do with Pickart.
Pickart seems very knowledgable, but nonetheless told me that it seemed that
it hadn't worked for me, no need to keep trying, that it sometimes works and
sometimes doesn't, ANd no photos to boot. Pretty discouraging, but
nonetheless, glad others have had success.
Ken -- Scarface, 13:32:53 01/12/03 Sun
Hi Ken,
I had a look at your pictures.Look's like you've still got some active acne.
Maybe you want to treat those first!
Anyway, just to let you know. I've got deep scars on my cheeks! What a place
to have them. Anyway, I'm going to do some excision on them..........
Copper Peptides and Hydroxy Acid for Scar Removal -- Eric, 07:32:46 01/12/03
SunHey guys-
Looks like there is a lot of controversey going on about whether or not copper
peptides really work for acne scars... OK, for people who haven't yet read Dr.
Pickart's updated version on acne scars and copper peptides on
www.scar-reduction.com, I want to show you all this posting from Delphi Forums
by Dr. Pickart:"Dear E and All,
You also need to use a hydroxy acid. You should use a hydroxy
acid in the morning and CP Serum at night.1.I think any scar - even pitted scars - can be removed with
hydroxy
acids and copper peptides. The hydroxy acid slowly dissolves
the scar tissue and the copper peptides help rebuild your skin
and pull it smooth.
2. But it is slow and may take 3 to 6 months.
3, The creams work better than the serums but the creams
may increases breakouts if these are a current problem.
4. If the Skin Biology products do not work fast enough, then
use a stronger hydroxy acid. Many people use 30% hydroxys
and even up to 70% glycolic. But stronger acids can also burn,
so have a professional help you.Loren Pickart"
Couple of things here... one, this is not an overnight procedure and can take
a while... three to six months is what I would truly wait and see before I
expected improvement... I got very noticeable improvements within 3-4 months
using just the Exfol Serum and TriReduction Creams... but no scar removal just
yet. The key is PATIENCE! Second, as stated on www.scar-reduction.com, some
people have more resilient scar tissue and this may require stronger hydroxy
acids to get results. If this is the case, WAIT a while first, then, if you
aren't comfortable with doing peels yourself or need help, visit an
esthetician or dermatologist like Dr. Pickart recommends. I REALLY think you
should check out www.scar-reduction.com and look at Acne Scar Reduction to see
what Dr. Pickart's recommendations.As for Elicina, I don't know if this is a hoax or not, but Pickart is a
respected biochemist who has created many clinically proven products on the
market now. His research on copper peptides is extensive and he has received
reports from customers about removal of scars, some of which are on his
website. Pickart's products are based on solid research. This is strongly
emphasized by the doctor, and there is no reason why he would need to spread
false information about what his products can or can't do.Let's keep that in mind people... and remember, FAITH and PATIENCE are key
here! Good things come to those who wait!!-Eric
May -- CZ32, 07:13:33 01/12/03 Sun
Hi,
What happened when you used the salicyclic acid? I purchased Exfol and CP
Serum and I believe that the Exfol Serum contains salicyclic acid. I think.
Did you try the Exfol Serum? What is your skin type?Thanks kindly.
PK on Copper pepties, needling, etc. -- PK, 07:08:55 01/12/03 Sun
TO those who wrote recently: I have tried a number of techniques suggested on
this board: copper pepties (Skin Biology strongest variety, along with strong
glycolic acid before hand to "prepare" the scars), elcina, needling, etc.Hate to report this, but NONE of them worked. Period. Stayed on CP products
for 4 months or more, not ANY change whatsoever.DId needling on chin area and after months of red spots where it was done,
healed WORSE OFF than before. Made indented scars WORSE, deeper and larger.
PLEASE anyone considering needling be aware that I had contacted several of
those people who posted here OR who had emailed me individually about
scarring, saying that it was some "miracle" cure for indented scars, AND when
checking back in with them after a couple months, they sadly reported that the
after the swelling had subsided completely, either the scar hadn't improved at
all, or maybe 5%. Unfortunarly, they hadn't bothered to report back in after
those results, so readers were still under teh impression that needling is a
great option. Maybe it has worked for others, which is super. It didn't for
me, and apparnelty others who had at first sounded encouraged.Elcina is a hoax, in my opinion.
SOrry for the bad news, but I'm taking the time to write so that others are
warned before spending their money and possibly (needling) doing more harm to
their skin. Trust me, I wish that I had found something positive to report in
on, I'm desparate to treat several indented scars on my face.Best of luck to everyone, hope this is helpful.
Denise1 -- CZ32, 06:52:04 01/12/03 Sun
Hi,
I was just wondering about the New You System you mentioned you've been using.
(LOL so many you's in that sentence) Anyway, how would you describe your
results on your acne and scars after the 5 months? Also what skin type do you
have?I'm waiting for my CP Serum to arrive but I'm always looking out for anything
that has helped improved other sufferers.Thanks heaps in advance.
Subcision results -- Cameron, 04:50:33 01/12/03 Sun
leandro, my skin has not sunk back where I got the subcision done. It's been
two months and so far it's still elevated (too much though). It's still red
too and it still looks like scarred skin (not smooth). So basically, If 5 is
zero result--no improvement, I'd rate this a 2 so far (worse than 5). I doubt
that it's going to eventually beat a 5 on a scale of 1 to 10.
To PK & Ken - indented scars and acne scars -- May, 02:18:24 01/12/03 Sun
I have read various postings in other forums, strong copper petides did help
with the scars. PK - it could take months for a sacr to fade. you could visit
the skin biology web site to check out.www.skinbiology.com. I am using it for
the indented hole that are caused by 2% salicyclic acid. For a few weeks, it
had improved.(my scars are new). For older scars, u might need to use an
exfoliant to speed it up.(but don't use salicyclic acid, it does not work for
all people.)
Punch Elevation -- Still dont get it, 00:57:28 01/12/03 Sun
Still not understanding punch elevation, is this procedure just punching out
skin thats depressed then suturing it to the raised skin? This doesnt sound
like it would yeild good results, so basically there is a "void" area below
the elevation? Seems like it would just fall back down after a while. Maybe I
am not getting this correct?
TO BJC re Excision -- Anna, 23:09:44 01/11/03 Sat
I'm really not sure what kind of scar punch elevation is limited too.
Although, I believe the examples I have seen mentioned in literature were
roundish acne or pock scars.Excision is where they take an eye shaped punch to take out the scar. They
then suture the opening and, as you said, create a linear line.Another technique is punch grafting where they punch out the scar and then
take the same punch to obtain a graft (usually from behind the ear) and suture
the graft into place.
Thanks so much, Karen! -- Denise1, 22:14:10 01/11/03 Sat
Yeah, when I mentioned people mentioning that the texture of their skin
changing, everyone seemed to think it was for the better! So I meant that in a
good way.Wow. This sounds excellent! I can't wait to get it done. If the woman in
Northern Virginia doesn't do full face (I've read here on the board that some
people don't do that), I'll go to your guy in Raleigh, as that is only about 2
1/2 hours from me. I'm in Richmond, Va. All I'll do is jump on 85 south and
I'll be there in no time.So glad you are enjoying the success of it. I'm really looking forward to
this!:-)
To Deek -- Karen, 22:13:47 01/11/03 Sat
Hi Deek!
Aw, you are sweet, thanks! Glad I could be of some help! I just had a local
tattoo artist do it. I actually put together a nice email telling him a little
about the procedure (included a short article, and some testimonials), and I
sent it out to a couple of places around here that looked pretty reputable. I
was lucky that he answered me back, his office was very nice, and he was
really kind and did a very good job. I will definately go back to him!And, thanks for saying that, I hope my improvement continues, too! I hope that
when you get your appointment you fair as well as I, and others, have! In my
last post, I put up a link to the Procyte copper peptide ointment that Happy
Needler and I used to heal, it was very good and sped up the healing process
quite a lot. It was actually made for healing up laser surgery to promote
collagen growth just after the surgery. Just scroll down, it should be there
somewhere if you are interested!Karen:)
KAREN - NEEDLING -- DEEK, 20:28:55 01/11/03 Sat
Wow! What an inspiration you are. I'm definately calling a permanent makeup
artist on Monday. Tell me, did you use a tatoo artist? Thanks for the info...I
sure hope your improvement continues!
ANNA Punch Elevation -- BJC, 19:55:28 01/11/03 Sat
What kind of scar can punch elevation help?? Does the scar have to be a small
round scar or can it be 1-3 mm long and about 1-3mm wide? If it would not help
with this scar would excision help?? Is excision where they break up the scar
and stitch it back up leaving a liner scar??
Needling -- DaveB, 18:36:17 01/11/03 Sat
It's been 16 days since I had my test spot done for needling done--an area
about the size of a half dollar under my ear. I chose that spot for two
reasons: because the area is pretty devoid of any collagen at all under the
skin (that area used to break out a lot), and because if something went wrong,
it wouldn't too noticable. Right now there is still some slight discoloration,
but not much, and the area does feel at least a bit more filled in.So really this was just an experiment to see how my skin reacted, to see how
much time I might need to take off work. I didn't expect any major results in
a short time span--I seem to remember Dr. Fernandes of South Africa saying
that full results wouldn't show for the better part of a year. Anyway, I will
probably be getting the whole face done--scarred and unscarred--in about a
month.Interestingly, though, my skin seems to looking much better these days anyway.
I usually get collagen injections done every two months (not cheap!), but
although I'm due for another treatment, the skin doesn't look so bad at all.
Six months ago I received the last of my four Cool Touch treatments, and the
doctor said that I wouldn't start seeing their real effects until about now.
Hmmm.
Denise - skin needling -- Karen, 17:16:32 01/11/03 Sat
Hi all!
Hey Denise! LOL, the scars are not GONE, but they are significantly improved!
Almost all of them are looking quite a bit better, the deepest icepicks are
the least improved. Some of the most shallow icepicks are pretty much gone -
it is the icepicks that have responded the least, though. Sorry I took a while
in getting back to yall, but the same thing happened as last time. When I
first did it, I was disappointed with the results, so I held off on posting
here to see if they would get better as they did last time. Sure enough, they
have been getting better and better over the past month, and at this point I
am very pleased with it! A few scars that I had that really bothered me are A
LOT better, I have to really be looking for them to see them in the mirror,
anymore!Yup, I had the FULL FACE done, I think most people who have had it done did
the same thing. Scarred and non-scarred skin, I can tell you that it doesn't
hurt the nonscarred skin to do it. If anything, I would say it is
rejuvenating, and it gets rid of any red marks and most uneveness in color,
too, It just peels right off! I am not sure what other people mean when they
talk about the texture of the skin changing, but the skin is just a lot more
smooth for me. I would say that this procedure works the best on rolling
scars, but almost all have been helped to some extent - and I am expecting
more improvement within the coming months. I think I am going to have it done
again in March.I didn't feel like the full face was too much, at all, I think you would get
really good results if you were to do it that way. I would do it the same way
next time. Any more questions? I'd be happy to answer them!Good luck, everyone! Karen:)
To BJC RE: Punch Elevation -- Anna, 16:51:37 01/11/03 Sat
Hi BJC:
No, punch elevation is not like subcision. Imagine a crater on the moon and
then taking a cookie cutter with the same outline as the crater and punching
the crater. Then you would lift and remove the cookie cutter so that the
sunken part is flush with the rest of the moon surface and suture it into
place in it's newly heightened position. This is punch elevation.Subcision is taking a cutting needle and cutting horizontally below the
surface of the scar so that the skin fibers tethering the scar down are
released. This procedure also causes a blood clot to form which helps prevent
the scar from sinking down again. This is all done from a single needle entry
point.
Punch Elevation? -- BJC, 16:03:14 01/11/03 Sat
Im wondering what exactly is punch elevation?? it sounds like subcision where
they break the tissue up and the scar is suppose to rise to the top?? is this
subcision or is it a diffrent procedure??
excision -- HOPELESS, 15:12:40 01/11/03 Sat
Could someone please give me deatils on what scar can be excised. In terms of
the size of the scar?? does it have to be thin to be excised?? Can punch
grafting work for a faily large scar or does it have to be a small scar??
--HOPELESS
indented scars -PK -- May, 10:34:24 01/11/03 Sat
PK - you said you have tried copper petitdes, have you tried Skin Biology
product? I've seen postings in other forums that it did help much. They have a
stronger version of copper. But you know scars need time to fade. Please visit
the Skin bio web site www.skinbiology.com
hey CAMERON -- leandro, 06:39:43 01/11/03 Sat
hey cameron please tell me about your subcision. So after 2 months you told us
that the bump become red. Did you notice your scars sunk back?? I have read
many post negative that after 3 weeks their scars have sunk back. So what did
you experience?How could you rate tne # of % of your subcision results(raised
above skin level)??
filler -- BJC, 05:57:25 01/11/03 Sat
Does anybody know if injectable filler can be used on the temple area?
Also wondering about needling . . . -- M, 05:11:13 01/11/03 Sat
So what's going on with you guys??? Where the scars raised? loosened? skin
thickened? repigmented? depigmented? ... ?????????????????????????Planning this possibly sooner than later . . . and wanting hope for almost
100% improvement(I feel like I'm at a good starting point from my last 18
months of peels). I need to do all of the above except depigment
(soften/raise/thicked/repigment).Fill us in.
M
Stretching Skin -- Cameron, 03:40:54 01/11/03 Sat
In regards to my face lift posts, does the same principle apply however skin
is stretched (that the scars will return within a couple weeks)? Using
fillers? Also, has anyone gained a lot of weight in their face and noticed an
improvement in their scarring?Finally, if anyone in the Denver area finds a good dermatologist, please email
me. Thank you.
Cameron - Subcision in Denver -- Tamara, 03:22:08 01/11/03 SatCameron, I am sorry to hear about your experience with Dr. Swinehart. :( He
looked promising from the information on his website. I have consultations
with 3 different Dermatologists this next month or so. I'll let you know if I
find anyone that I think I can trust with my face.
I guess I should ask folks here: Has anyone here seen: Dr. McCulloch, Dr.
Bland or Dr. Cole in Colorado Springs for subcisions or any other procedures?
If so, please post your experience here. Thanks ~Tamara
Face lift - answer -- Cameron, 02:34:39 01/11/03 Sat
Never mind. Here's the answer:
FAQ:
Will a facelift help my acne scars?
Sorry, but a face lift will not help your acne scars, even though when you put
your fingers on the skin just in front of your ears and pull your facial skin
backwards, the acne scars seem to flatten as the skin tightens. It seems to
make mechanical sense that the scars should flatten with the face lift
operation, but it doesn't work out when you actually try it. The problem is
that the face lift won't maintain tension on the surface of the skin, and the
acne scars come back completely within just a couple of weeks after the face
lift.
Subcision - Dr Swinehart -- Cameron, 02:29:55 01/11/03 Sat
Tamara, I live in Colorado, and I had a subsicion on a test spot done by Dr.
Swinehart on Nov. 8 I believe. It was horribly swolen and blue for a few
weeks, and now, two months, later, it's a red elevated bump. It has not worked
at all for me. He seemed like a reasonable intelligent and sensitive doctor. I
don't know if my skin is just wierd, or he messed up. Also, they told me I'd
get a free consultation, and then all of a sudden after that, they kept
bugging me for $75 until I finally paid them.
Face lift? -- Cameron, 02:28:10 01/11/03 Sat
Why don't we all just get face lifts? Are they that much more expensive than
these other $4000 procedures? If I strech my skin, the problem goes away. It
seems pretty simple.
Karen, and other "needled" people....a couple of questions -- Denise1,
22:49:39 01/10/03 FriYooooo hooooooooooo....where are you needled people?!
We all want to know if your scars are gone, if the ice-picks are
improved....etc....??????I also have a question. When I've read that people have their "whole face"
done, does that mean that all the scars on the face have been done, or that
the tatooing instrument goes over the face, row by row, until the full face is
done? This would include non-scarred skin as well.I'm wondering about that because everyone always comments about the look and
texture of their skin changing drastically. So I was wondering what "full
face" means?Can someone please answer?!
I'm planning on having this done in about a month and want to know how to go
about this. I would love to have the full face done, row by row, to
dramatically improve my skin, but didn't know if that's too much.Someone who's had this done please advise.
Thanks!
Tamara -- Tom, 20:07:42 01/10/03 FriLet me know if you find a good doctor for subcision in the Springs. I live in
Highlands Ranch and can drive there in no time. Thanks.
To BC re Excision -- Anna, 18:34:13 01/10/03 Fri
Hi BC,
Excision is effective for icepicks.To ALL:
Shouldn't Kit be back by now, I'm dying to hear about her Exoderm treatment!Anna
To ping -- Jordan, 14:06:23 01/10/03 Fri
Hi, thx for your info in smoothbeam. by the way, how is the cooltouch
treatment? Hope you have good result. Does the colour of your skin look normal
now, even without makeup? Take care and good luck.
John H -- Maria, 11:12:10 01/10/03 Fri
John,
I just stated what a plastic surgeon told me. It is clear that I am not an
expert. Then again you are the first person I have come across who has had
great success with Erbium. How deep were your scars? Mine were quite shallow,
maybe 2 deep ones and I had 0 improvement. So there you go. It might work for
others, it certainly didn't work for me
doctors in san fran area -- sarah, 10:39:09 01/10/03 FriHi: Can anyone please reccomend some good scars doc in the San Fran area. I
live overseas and will be in San Fran and want to get a US opinion.
Thanks
Mickey -- JB, 10:34:07 01/10/03 Fri
It doesn't seem like much. I see my Surgeon on the 15th and he took before
photos so maybe we'll look them over and compare. All the before and after
photos I've seen on the web from various Doctors seem to be 3 months "after"
photos or later. I was told by my Surgeon it would take three months to see
the final results. But I get the feeling that it won't be much to write home
about, but then again I can always write to everyone here and it is cheaper
than a therapist! LOL, JB
John H. -- JB, 10:17:38 01/10/03 Fri
John, How long long does remodelling take place? And could you please explain
this statement to me: If the initial improvement is A expect some A/3 to A/2
improvement from the maturation phase. One more and I do appreciate your time.
How long is the maturation phase? Thank you, JB
Maria -- JB, 09:54:00 01/10/03 Fri
Maria, I agree with you. It seems our Erbium treatment wasn't very effective
for us! But, As John H. said others might have better results. And then
there's the ones we never hear from that has had resurfacing. I'm not giving
up though. My surgeon said that if I wanted another one after 6 months or so
he would charge me less than half the cost of the first one. But he also told
me one should be all I needed. So it doesn't seem like he's trying to bend me
over financially. One of the reasons I chose him was because if you look at
him very closely you will see slight acne scarring on his face and if he knows
your looking he will shift his face so you can get a better look. Whatever he
had done was a really good job. So I felt a Chief Plastic Surgeon that
suffered with acne scarring himself would be more understanding of the
emotional impact a person goes through. I'm going on 5 weeks now and started
to apply CP-SERUM. Sometimes I wonder if I had known about and used CP-SERUM
post-op if my results would have been different. Anyway there really isn't
much I can do at this point except keep up my regimen for now and then discuss
the outcome and other options with him after 3 months. I don't know how long
ago you have had your laser resurfacing but, John H. pointed out that your
skin should look as if it was skinned by a razor, Some of my scars still look
like that and when I applied the CP-SERUM my scars turned pinker than the rest
of my face so maybe there might still be some improvement. I don't know for
sure research is still being conducted...LOL, JB
John H -- Ken, 07:52:20 01/10/03 Fri
My Acne Scarring Photos Site Is:
http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/newpride/lst?.dir=/My+Photo+Album&.src=ph&.order=&.view=t&.done=http%3a//photos.yahoo.com/Dear John
Thank you very much for your advice. Could you tell me your evaluation of my
scarring? My skin is so rough and some scars are deep to dermis. As you saw my
pictures, the the deep scars on both temples are deep to dermis and has turned
white. Do you know any treatment that could make my epidermis of my deep scars
regrow again?As for the rest of my scarring, do you think seeing Dr. Rapaport of New Jersy
is first choice? So many people on this forum ever saw Dr. Rapaport and were
so satisfied with the result.The combination of Subcision, Erbium and N-lite is though to be the best
formula to treat acne scarring. As for CO2, it is too trouble and aggressive
with unexpected risks. Therefore, Do you think my scarring is okey for this
combination treatment and Dr. Rapaport is competent for me?
(I think my epidermis are very thin that Aggressive Laser Surgery will make my
face worse)Looking forward to your reply
With Regards
Ken
excision-What kind of scar -- BC, 02:57:24 01/10/03 Fri
What kind of scars can excision help?? can it help ice pick scars??
Dr. Knize in Denver -- Tamara, 02:30:00 01/10/03 Fri
Tom - thanks for the information.
I have been doing research on Dr's lately and I saw someone who does subcision
in Denver - Dr. James Swinehart. To my knowledge subcision is similar (though
superior) to needling.I've made a few appointments for consultations in Colorado Springs with Dr's
who perform subcision. I hope that I can find someone I trust and feel
comfortable with. If anyone knows of a Dr. in Colorado Springs who is good at
subcision, please let me know. Thanks! ~ Tamara
lazer resurfacing photos -- RF, 02:04:53 01/10/03 Fri
For you newcomers to the board, a guy has his photos posted from his lazer
resurfacing surgery this past year. His web address has been posted before,
but for those of you who haven't seen it, here it is.
http://home.earthlink.net/~scarsupport/
John H -- MIkey, 00:28:25 01/10/03 Fri
John it sounds like you had a very good experience with erbium laser could you
enlighten us with your experience with details and kind of scars you have??
KEN -- John H., 23:35:52 01/09/03 Thu
Ken my friend go for the erbium. Find an epxerienced doctor and do it. You
will be satisfied if you do it right. Trust me. Your tortures will become a
thing of the past. You will have more improvement than you ever imagined. You
wouldnt even allow yourself to dream such improvement. Believe me I know.
n -- John H., 23:06:47 01/09/03 Thu
JB: The results must be obvious after about 10 days. What you must expect to
see is something like a razor have passed and saved layers of your skin,
depending of the depth of abrasion. At this new topography remodelling takes
then place. If the initial improvement is A expect some A/3 to A/2 improvement
from the maturation phase.Maria: Erbium targets at water about 15 times more than Co2 resulting in less
thermal scattering to underlying tissue. Co2 causes a broader necrosis zone
(>50 C) and also an instant tightening to other areas (<50 C). This
contraction of the collagen gives the extra benefits, but it is not known if
that effect is permanent. Collagen remodeling is an entirely different issue
and it has nothing to do with what you say. It is only depended of how deep is
the resulting wound. To say Erbium is useless makes harm to newcomers. At
least say it was useless for you.I have a new face now. Dont imagine something like a softening of the scars or
a better texture or bullshit like these. We are talking about scars here gyus,
right?And also I red some of eric's letters. Dear eric my friend things are simpler
than those things you search. If a scar have matured, ie if the remodeling
phase is over there are not many things you can do. You have one and only
option. To rewound your skin. The glycolic acid you put rewounds the skin in a
very very very superficial way for the most of acne scars sufferers.
Dr. Knize in Denver -- Tom, 22:47:50 01/09/03 Thu
I live in the Denver area and saw the posts about Dr. Knize, who practices in
Englewood which is a burb on Denver. I just got off the phone with his office,
and they have never heard of the needling procedure.
Maria erbium -- Mikey, 21:37:37 01/09/03 Thu
Maria Im just wondering if there was ANY kind of improvement from the erbium
laser treatment?? what kind of scars do u have?
Gertrude -- Pat, 18:50:29 01/09/03 Thu
Hi Gertrude, thanks for your post! I was wondering about the "holes" you
mentioned. Were these caused by the obagi, the TNS or peptides? Its hard to
tell from your post whether you had these holes before or after these
products.
How long after these products did you get the laser/IPL treatments, and how
long after getting the treatments until you saw results? Would you say that
your scars are 100% gone? Thanks for the clarification.
Gertrude -- sarah, 13:45:27 01/09/03 Thu
GREAT JOB! I was wondering how bad your scrars were? did you have any ice pick
or box car? Also what is MDA? Which skin biology products did you use?Thanks
Sarah
JB -- Maria, 13:01:51 01/09/03 Thu
JB,
I am sorry to disappoint you but if you don't see any improvement after 4
weeks there is little hope that it will get better. Unlike C02, Erbium is a
"cool" laser therefore collagen growth is minimal. I've experienced the same
thing. In the beginning it seemed alright and then the scars came back. I
believe Erbium is pretty useless.Maria
Getrude- IPL/ CT/ MDA -- AK, 11:55:45 01/09/03 ThuIt is great to hear of your success story! I believe all of us on this board
are on a journey of self discovery too...with a goal of improving those
dreaded scars.I presume you must be living in Singapore coz you had mentioned Dr Martin
Huang from MD Specialist. May I ask what kind of scars did you have (rolling,
boxcar, icepick..mild or severe..& on which part of the face?)Also, how would
you rate your percentage of improvement currently? Have your scars filled-in
nicely or has it been mainly just an overall improvement of the facial tone &
texture?I asked the above coz Dr Huang recommended the same procedures for me during
my consultation with him. However, another Derm. proposed Subcision and
Cooltouch. Thus, I'm really unsure which course of action to take? I believe
Subcision is "more" invasive and involves longer downtime whilst Dr Huang's
recommendation involves less downtime. However, I'm inclined to believe that
you may have mild scarring thus may have benefitted from the non-invasive tx.
I have mainly moderate rolling scars on my cheeks thus am unsure whether
IPL/CT/MDA txs are too superficial for me. Also, I noticed that alot of rather
positive feedback regarding Subcision have been given by many on this board.
Any comments by anyone?Getrude, I would appreciate it if you could write to my personal email(as
provided) to share more of your successful experience with Dr Huang's
recommended Tx. Many thanks!
JB-Erbium -- Mikey, 05:45:17 01/09/03 ThuI just wanted to say thank you for the information on your erbium laser
treament. It looks like we are on the same boat I have the same kind of scars
as yours boxcar, rolling and a few ice pick. Do you see any kind of improvment
on your scars?? Stay strong, --Mikey
acne scars -- matt, 03:52:50 01/09/03 ThuHas anyone had their acne scars worsen after a chemical peel(light,medium)
Does anyone know if collagen injections work for scars in the temple area?
Mickey -- JB, 03:34:35 01/09/03 ThuMickey, I have moderate boxcar and rolling scars on my temples and cheeks.
Some icepicks upperlip below my nose and on cheeks. Full face erbium laser
treatment and it was aggressive. I have light skin and I was out of the sun
two months before treatment. I bleached twice daily and used Retin-A daily
before bedtime for 4 weeks prior to treatment. I was told to expect around 70%
improvement, but it should take 3 months to see final results. Post-op I drank
alot of fresh vegetable juice mixed with a high quality whey protein powder
and vitamin supplements (JuiceLady I purchased on Amazon.com for $119.29
delivered...Excellent price!) You can find the JuiceMan II used on Ebay or
Amazon for a good price. I took 500mg of niacin twice a day to increase blood
flow to my skin. I did not mega dose vitamins but, I broke the water
solubles...B complex from rice and C from rosehips into smaller pieces and
took them with the juice through out the day. I used a protein calculator I
found on a whey protein website so I would know how much my body needed to
heal. I was told I had a faster than expected recovery. Kaiser is starting to
recommend whey protein powder to all of their cosmetic surgery patients. I had
my treatment at Kaiser Permanente Hospitals Cosmetic Surgery Department in the
S.F.Bay Area. Kaisers Chief Surgeon peformed the treatment. He suggested
general anesthesia so he could be aggressive and go deep. Sounds good eh?
That's why I was wondering what's taking so long for the results to show. It's
been 5 weeks post-op. Finding this Forum has been a blessing to me, I wish I
had found it before I had treatment. False promises? Broken dreams? Yes, I
have experienced them too! For along time I felt I stood alone in a world
where perfection is the key that opens many doors. Now I stand with many... I
no longer have to stand alone. JB
Mickey -- JB, 03:31:38 01/09/03 ThuMickey, I have moderate boxcar and rolling scars on my temples and cheeks.
Some icepicks upperlip below my nose and on cheeks. Full face erbium laser
treatment and it was aggressive. I have light skin and I was out of the sun
two months before treatment. I bleached twice daily and used Retin-A daily
before bedtime for 4 weeks prior to treatment. I was told to expect around 70%
improvement, but it should take 3 months to see final results. Post-op I drank
alot of fresh vegetable juice mixed with a high quality whey protein powder
and vitamin supplements (JuiceLady I purchased on Amazon.com for $119.29
delivered...Excellent price!) You can find the JuiceMan II used on Ebay or
Amazon for a good price. I took 500mg of niacin twice a day to increase blood
flow to my skin. I did not mega dose vitamins but, I broke the water
solubles...B complex from rice and C from rosehips into smaller pieces and
took them with the juice through out the day. I used a protein calculator I
found on a whey protein website so I would know how much my body needed to
heal. I was told I had a faster than expected recovery. Kaiser is starting to
recommend whey protein powder to all of their cosmetic surgery patients. I had
my treatment at Kaiser Permanente Hospitals Cosmetic Surgery Department in the
S.F.Bay Area. Kaisers Chief Surgeon peformed the treatment. He suggested
general anesthesia so he could be aggressive and go deep. Sounds good eh?
That's why I was wondering what's taking so long for the results to show. It's
been 5 weeks post-op. Finding this Forum has been a blessing to me, I wish I
had found it before I had treatment. False promises? Broken dreams? Yes, I
have experienced them too! For along time I felt I stood alone in a world
where perfection is the key that opens many doors. Now I stand with many... I
no longer have to stand alone. JB
JB-Erbium-Type of scars?? -- Mikey, 20:03:43 01/08/03 WedJB i was just wondering what type of scars do have?? are they mild, moderate,
deep, boxtype, ice pick, rolling?? Did u have a full face erbium treatment or
just sections of your face. Last question what color is your skin, light,
olive, dark??
Photoes of my acne scarring have been posted on the net, My buddies could
give me any help -- Ken, 17:18:13 01/08/03 WedMy acne scarring pics site is
http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/newpride/lst?.dir=/My+Photo+Album&.src=ph&.order=&.view=t&.done=http%3a//photos.yahoo.com/Ken
25 years old
Hong KongMy dear friends who also suffer the same nightmare,
Several days ago, for a purpose to obtain the most reliable suggestion of what
treatments (Lasers, Sub/Excision, etc.) suitable for and which dermatologists
competent to deal with my condition, I bought a digital camera in order to let
you our buddies see my conditions.My acne scarring were caused by misusing ance lotion and cleanser 7 years ago.
My acnes at that time were too many that no doctors could prescribe any
medicines to control its deterioration. However, by God's mercy, My father
finally found a foreign dermatologist who knew accutane's existence and
prescirbed it to me. Though the acnes on my face were cleared up rapidly, the
nightmare of many acne scars coming to my face began.Day by day for many years, no friends, no love, isolation, loneliness,
self-consciousness were the only tortures left with me. Still, I never gave up
any way to get my scars removed. After highschool graduation I saw
dermatologist who suggested me to use Obagi's peeling products. As obagi
peeling products are not effective for moderate to severe acne scarring, there
was just a bit of improvement I could saw.For four years of college life, praying My Christ for a day of getting my face
treated and regaining my self-confidence, the day I wish to come.My good friends, I hope you could give me the most realible suggestions of
what treatments most effective for me and which doctors most competent to deal
with my case. I noticed just describing how bad my condition is is no any
better than posting my pictures. So, the site to my acne scarring pictures is
http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/newpride/lst?.dir=/My+Photo+Album&.src=ph&.order=&.view=t&.done=http%3a//photos.yahoo.com/My friends, I look forward to your merciful suggestions.
Please send me emails.In Christ
Ken
mike -- Lisa, 16:45:43 01/08/03 WedMike - Does cystic nodule go away on it's own? How long a go did you have
subcision? Do you still have the bumps? Sorry for all the questions, but I
really want to know what i can do to get these bumps off my face.ATTN: Lisa -- Karl, 03:37:50 01/08/03 Wed
This is somewhat normal. It's called a cystic nodule, and it happened to me
after my subcision. If you want, e-mail me and we can discuss this further.Stay strong,
Mike
Everyone Can Have Clear Skin -- Getrude, 15:06:46 01/08/03 WedDearest All,
A year ago, I would never ever dream my skin could be what it looks today. I
was destined to have horrible skin and scars that would haunt me 4 life. I
could never face anyone without makeup.
A year later, I really cannot believe how much better my skin had gotten. I
started by using Obagi, it was a tough period, all the shedding and I looked
horrid. Around August, I stopped and started using skin biology and TNS
Complex recovery. It really improved as Obagi had cleared up my skin but it
was not smooth. It had left many holes. In oct, I started my IPL and Cooltouch
tog with MDA at Dr Martin Huang clinic at MD Specialist Healthcare.I have gone through 3 IPL/CT and 2 MDA and together with the proper skincare
and internal supplements, I feel my skin today is really amazing. People
always ask me what I do and ask why my skin so fair but yet rosy and radiant.I feel that the entire process of being in misery in the past thinking I was
fated to today is a journey of self-discovery. It's all about empowering
yourself and not hearing from others this is good and that is good. It;s all
about u taking control of your own life and knowing what's good for u and not
blindly just following. That's how my friendship with Dr Huang is, it's about
sharing knowledge and seeking for his advice in a responsible way and not
expecting surgeons to perform miracles. Only then can your skin really get
better without disappointment. You have to take ownership of your own skin and
not let others determine what is better for u. Do drop me a line if u got
something to share with meLove,
Getrude
Excision and subcision -- ping, 10:04:18 01/08/03 Wedsarah,
I didn't know of subcision when I did excision. My doctor never mentioned that
to me. Personally, I really think subcision will yield better results.So, do ask for a few more opinions from doctors before deciding. Anyway, both
procedures will cause you bruises which takes about a week or two to suside
away.
ping - excision -- sarah, 09:48:05 01/08/03 WedPing: One last one: Why didnt you get subscision? What made you decide on
excision?
THANKS
Sarah
How Long? -- JB, 08:18:23 01/08/03 WedHello Everyone, I've recently had laser resurfacing four weeks ago with an
Erbium YAG laser and I really haven't seen any results. My face looked pretty
good at one week and then all the scars came back. My scarring is on my cheeks
and they are moderate. Question...Will they improve? And if so how long will
it take to see improvement? Thank you for your time. JB
Questions... -- bm, 06:32:28 01/08/03 WedAge :27
Gender :Male
Country :USHello,
First I wanted to say that it's been great reading this board. I am 26 and
have had pretty bad acne (mostly on my cheeks w/scarring) since I was a teen.
I'd tried all the grocery store treatments to no avail. Anyway about this time
last year I decided to start shaving with a razor instead of an electric
shaver, and my acne disappeared in two weeks! It never came back. I guess the
cause is different for all of us and I finally stumbled across mine.Anyhow I've had a great deal of scarring... some discoleration and lots of
pits, all on my cheecks. The girls at the clinic say that it's "not that bad"
but I'm not sure what that means. I guess it's moderate, and the scarring is
anywhere from a year to six or seven years old. I tried neutrogena's "visibly
even" moisturizer for six months and it actually helped, very slightly, but
the improvement felt immaterial. A week ago I went to a clinic and had the
first of four to sixteen microdermabrasions. Actually, the skin does feel a
bit healthier and quite a bit smoother--the texture just seems to have
improved, at least to the touch. However the depressions and the
discolorations are still there. I'll give it another three or so treatments
and then start to think of my options.I have dark brown skin (indian) so I'm told that most of the more aggressive
treatments, including most of the laser treatments, are no-no. I've been told
that the cooltouch laser might help but I haven't looked into it. I honestly
don't know what my options are. The scarring has been crippling, in many ways,
but over the last few years I've figured out how to function pretty well in
spite of it. I'm a manager at a nice company and do some public speaking, and
that comes easily, but inside I'm still profoundly introverted because of the
acne and all the consequences (bullying, being alone) when I was younger. I
have a fair amount of money set aside to fight this problem, now that the acne
has disappeared, but I worry that the treatment I need hasn't been invented
yet! In any case, I have high hopes that the microdermabrasion will at least
minimize enough of the scarring to make me feel like I've earned a small
victory. I could use that right about now.Hmm... unfortunately I have no advice to offer or questions to ask (other than
opinions from others with darker skin & similar scarring, or opinions on the
options I mentioned or anything I've forgotten) but I did want to stop in and
say hi.
ATTN: Lisa -- Karl, 03:37:50 01/08/03 WedThis is somewhat normal. It's called a cystic nodule, and it happened to me
after my subcision. If you want, e-mail me and we can discuss this further.Stay strong,
Mike
erbium dark skin -- Mikey, 02:49:03 01/08/03 WedHas anyone in here with olive skin undergone erbium laser treatment for there
acne scar??? If so did it cause any permanent discoloration?? Where the
results good?? What kind of scars did u have ice pick, boxcar, rolling, deep
or shallow? Any other complication that happened from the treatment??
Taylor---tri-reduction or elicina -- Bob, 17:41:32 01/07/03 TueI was also recently having to decide whether to go with elicina or
tri-reduction. After much reading it appears to me the tri-reduction is much
stronger and should give quicker and better results. I ordered the
tri-reduction combo with retinol because I'm 46 and don't get acne scars very
often anymore. For someone that is under 30 or still gets acne scars they
recommend getting it without the retinol. With retinol is the stronger one but
some people who are still getting acne have some reaction to the retinol. I
was pleasantly surprised in how quick I received it in the mail. I've been
using it for going on 4 days now and I've had no side effects. I'll be able to
give a better report on my results in a month I hope though since I have a
couple of bad depressed scars (and a couple of pits that elongated)it is my
understanding it may take up to 6 months to see very good results. With bad
acne scars it important to get the combo package (a container of trireduction
with or without retinol and a container of exfol cream ---the cream is 2%
salicylic acid). The exfol cream removes scar tissue and the tri reduction
helps to replace it. According to instructions I rub the exfol cream on in the
morning and it's not noticible on my scars. In the evening I gently rub the
tri-reduction cream on my scars-- it's the copper peptide (and retinol also
with my container) Hope this helps.
Acne Scarring Discussion Board -- Cory, 16:54:46 01/07/03 TueHere's an alternative discussion board site. Not sure if most of you know
about it, but the format and layout is a bit cleaner than the one here. Easier
to follow the threads of discussions.http://yodamud.com/forum/index.php
Exoderm Site -- Cory, 16:52:49 01/07/03 TueCheck out this link:
http://www.exoderm.com/exo/Art2.html
Pretty impressive results, although liquifying of the skin and abraiding not
only sound pretty painful, but also sound like they have the potential for
serious damage if done incorrectly.Can't argue with the results seen in some of those pics, but not sure if I'd
want to risk it. Also, no mention of cost, so who knows how deep into your
wallet you'd be diving to have this done.Guinness
re:excision answers -- ping, 12:29:20 01/07/03 TueOk...I answer within my means.
For the info for my fellow singaporeans here, my doctor who perform excision
on me is Prof Goh from NSC.Sarah, the scar wouldn't be totally flatten or merged naturally with other
non-scar skin area. The scars on my cheeks looks much improved though. The new
scar wouldn't be as thin as a sitched line but instead would be a much
improved and shallow version which I think are good candidates for
resurfacing. I think repeated excision on the same scars will reap the result
that you want. For me, I had 3 excisions and then stopped as the downtime can
be quite long. Maybe you can ask your doctor on this.I don't know what surgical tools the doctor used on me as my whole face is
covered with a cloth with a hole just big so that the doctor can work on my
scars. But I'm sure he used a puncher on me as I overheard he asked the
assisting nurse to hand over a puncher or something to him during the
precedure.As I said, the results are mixed and you got to be realistic at first so that
at the end, you can be happy with the result. Most of the cheeks scars respond
well but those at the temple didn't. Beside excision, do you consider
subcision before? I think you should as I have read some positive feedbacks
about it. I felt that subcision is a much superior option than excision, so do
ask your doctor on this too. Oh yes, I went for co2 laser last year but didn't
get the results I want. Right now, I just started on the cooltouch treatment.
Hope that helps for my scars.
excision - ping -- sarah, 09:55:02 01/07/03 TuePing: Thanks for the info. Please prepare fo a load of questions. Sorry!!! I
was recently told excision was mu only solution because I only have scarring
on my cheeks and they are ice pick and boxcar - no rolling. Doc(s) have said
they are moderate. I am a bit worried because as we all know - we have been
promised so much in the past and well we are all writing to this board. The
idea of replacing one scar with another is worrisome. I was told the new scar
would be vertical and ease into your natural skin lines. Is that true? I was
told they use a cookie cutter type instrument and punch out the old scar and
replace it with a stich - leaving only the stich. Is this the results you see.
Did you get a lot done? Do you or did you have a lot of ice pick scars that
you did the excision on? Did you have any punch elevation done -where they
raise scar tissue? I am just worried if they take out all my old scars the new
scars arent going to look much better. Oh and finally - did you get any
resurfacing?Thanks for your time!
Sarah
Anna and Lisa H -- Cityslicker, 09:31:45 01/07/03 TueAnna, to answer a couple of your questions, yes, I've tried subscision, with
the N-lite combo, by Dr. Rappaport. I did have limited results with a possible
20-30% improvement on some scars. It improved my orange peel texture somewhat,
but also, it left a couple of saucer scars that were not their before. I had
pimple like bumps come up at virtually almost every place treated. A few cysts
have come up recently at a couple of the places treated, but I don't know if
subscision had anything to do with them as they just came up in December and I
had subscision done in early October. I've seen improvement in skin texture
even last month, after 10 weeks. On your dermabrasion question, to be honest,
I never considered a partial dermabrasion, cheeks only. Altho, that would
cover 95% of my scars. I assumed that would leave an obvious dermarcation line
and figured the whole face would have to be done. However, a couple of other
reasons factored into my thinking. First, the $5000 cost. Second, I'm scared
of having results of a few posters here, obvious grind marks or gouges. And
then, the thought of someone grinding my skin makes me quesy. Also, I did not
want to tell anyone, my family included, that I was having dermabrasion, and
Dr. Alkek's office stated, I'd have to have someone drive me home and I could
not have a taxi take me home. Well, if I couldn't have a taxi take me home,
then I'd have to tell someone that I was having this done, to drive me home,
and I just did not want to do that. Lastly, Dr. Rullan who has posted here
stated.....he has done dermabrasion, non-ablative 1064nm YAG laser and almost
50,000 peels (including Obaji, TCA peels, Baker Gordon Peels, Jessner's and
glycolic peels) and he considers Exoderm the most effective and safe RX for
acne scars, much better than CO2 and dermabrasion, and at this point....I'm
leaning towards having that treatment done in October, unless I make
signifcant progress to a large degree before then. But I do thank you for your
input.Lisa H., yes, I was extremely dissapointed and surprised myself, exactly for
the reasons you stated. I've read nothing but favorable reports and good
results with skin needling and was a little taken aback when she stated,
inconsistent results. I had to re-read the e-mail a couple of times, to
validate she actually said that. Still, I'm inclined to try to find someone in
my area that does this, but as of yet, have not found anyone. I e-mailed 5-6
permanent cosmetic technicians in my area and the only lead I got....was a
referral to several accupuncturist's who perform accupuncture, which one of
the technician's said was the same as skin needling. Regardless, I'll keep the
board updated if I make any progress. Regards. :-) Cityslicker
re:excision -- ping, 09:26:12 01/07/03 TueHello, sarah
The scar will still be there after the excision. It's just that it is much
improved, hence making any resurfacing method more effective.And I didn't feel my skin been really cut out. I feel like the surgeon is
using a scalpel to slice on the scar and then sitch it back.
Acne Scar's -- Taylor, 07:24:16 01/07/03 TueTaylor, I would like to try Elicina or Trireduction for pitted and ice picked
scar's on my face. I would deeply appreciate if some one could please reply in
letting me know which one would give me greater result's. Thank YOU!
Cityslicker -- LisaH, 03:45:12 01/07/03 TueCityslicker - Thanks for the info. That is disappointing she is getting
inconsistent results with the needling and has stopped doing it. Especially
since we have heard great success stories on this board. She sounded so
optimistic about the procedure before on her website - saying that it would
mimic the effects of laser and dermabrasion but without the downtime or high
cost.I have already had 2 dermabrasions. I paid 4k for the first full face 3 years
ago and 2k for the second dermabrasion for partial face 2 years ago. I ended
up with a couple new small scars on my face from the second treatment. My skin
thinned from the first dermabrasion making my skin more susceptible to scaring
on the second treatment. I do not think I received 50 percent improvement but
it did soften the edges of my scars making them better for the filler. There
are few doctors still doing dermabrasion because it is such a difficult
procedure and I guess the few who are still doing it think they are the best.
Since that experience I am looking for less invasive, low risk procedures to
help me feel better about my skin. I found a doctor in Houston offering
restylane. I am hoping by the time it dissipates something will be better out
there like isologen.
Laser Results -- JB, 20:35:35 01/06/03 MonHello Everyone, I've recently had laser resurfacing four weeks ago with an
Erbium YAG laser and I really haven't seen any results. My face looked pretty
good at one week and then all the scars came back. My scarring is on my cheeks
and they are moderate. Question...will they improve? And if so how long will
it take to see improvement? Thank you for time. JB
Cityslicker RE: Dr. Alkek -- Anna, 20:01:40 01/06/03 MonI was hoping that if you just needed your cheeks done they might reduce the
cost. $5000 is a lot to spend, especially if the rest of your face is fine.
80% improvement sounds pretty good though!
Subcision -- Lisa, 19:38:34 01/06/03 MonHi All - I had subcision done about 3 weeks ago. Has anyone who had subcision
had raised skin. They are almost like small pimples, but they are not pimples.
My doctor said he has never seen something like this before. I'm so upset
about the result. I was trying to fix my scars not create new problems. Please
someone help!!!
Anna and Lisa H -- Cityslicker, 19:04:07 01/06/03 MonAnna, the $5000 for dermabrasion from Dr. Alkek is for the full face. When I
called his office the receptionist quoted me that price. She said he was "the
best" and did more dermabrasions than anyone in Texas. Also, that same price
is noted on his website if you click on the dermabrasion tab. That seems high
to me also, but when you feel you are the best, perhaps a premium is justified
from their perspective.Lisa H, I noted earlier that I was going to have a consult with a lady in
Tulsa for Skin Needling as that was certainly my intentions. I wasn't aware
that she had taken that off her website. After I read your post I e-mailed her
to ask if she was still offering this service. She replied back to me, that
she had done a few patients with inconsistent results and decided she had too
many jobs to add something else. She advised me to consult with a body artist
or a permanent make-up technician in my area.
smooth beam -- ac, 18:06:42 01/06/03 MonHas anyone here had good or bad results with smooth beam?
Sarah -- Denise1, 14:52:35 01/06/03 MonOrange peel is a term used to denote the overall texture of your skin either
all over your face, or just in a certain area. For me, it was worst on my
forehead. For me, though, peels have helped my orange peel look and smoothed
my skin, and helped the appearance of my pores, and shrunk them. For some
people, though, glycolic and other acids PRODUCE that effect. You need to know
if your skin can tolerate peels and aha's before you use them. I've never had
much of a problem with them and didn't find the TCA peel to be that big of a
deal.I do have icepicks. No, the TCA didn't remove them, but softened them, just
like it did all of my scars.
Message to Laura and Bernie -- S, 13:49:05 01/06/03 MonThe engorged pores, I believe, are a result of the stretching of the skin
after the peel. I have them mainly on the forehead and the left cheek. When I
scrunch up my skin, the pores disappear. It is unsightly, I admit.The lotion has softened the pores and taken the tightness out of my skin. Dr.
Shu has encouraged me to continue using the Vitamin C lotion for three months.
It has been one month--and I am happy with the results. The pores are still
there, but they are smaller in appearance and what is most noteworthy is that
it has made my skin soft like a baby's behind.I wrote Dr. Shu in frustration inquiring about his products in late November.
I do not think that there is an order form on his website, but you may write
him. He sends his products by EMS, an expedited delivery service (comparable
to a Fed Ex in the US). One bottle of lotion is expensive--around $85.I wish you luck.
P.S. Have you tried any products to fasten the healing process? I realize that
there are other products out there that you can use post-peel. Copper peptides
sound like an interesting option.
TCA and Punch -- sarah, 12:41:17 01/06/03 Monhi Denise and Ping:
Denise: can you tell which TCA you had done? did you have any ice picks scars?
Is this what you mean by orange peeel effect? I was told I have ice pick and
box car scars and I think my only solution is punch excision which leads me to
Ping. Ping: Is the new scar fromt the stitiches noticeable? Can you tell
something was cut out? did you get resurfacing over the punch?
Thanks
sarah
What about homepeels???? -- teddybear, 11:14:31 01/06/03 MonHi all,
I' v just discovered the website homepeels.com and i was interesting in the
products such as Glycolic peel 30 and lactic acid peel 50.....But does it
worth the try?????thx
Pam Writing to Hols.... -- Pam, 05:23:36 01/06/03 MonDear Hols,
First off, thank again to you, and everyone, who was kind enough to respond to
my past posts regarding the nose scars caused by dermabrasion. I've been out
of town for the holidays, and am just now catching up with the more recent
posts.Hols, your message was very helpful and inspiring, especially in that you seem
to have obtained some results with the laser treatments you've used. Could you
possibly email me directly so that I could chat with you further about the
specifics of these treatments? I am curious just how much improvement you saw
in the indented scars thru each technique, AND whether the CoolTouch laser not
only caused the skin to "fill in" but did it also restore the skin to more of
its normal, unscarred texture? What I'm trying to say is, in my case, not only
do these blasted nose scars cut deep into my nose skin, but they are also now
of a different, more course, texture, relative to the normal skin at the
normal epidermal layer. In other words, if you obtained any "filling in" of
your scars, did it not only raise the scar level, but also hopefully returned
the skin in that area to a more normal appearance?Here's an anology: we've all seen those chocolate-covered strawberries for
desert. Imagine a strawberry covered in white chocolate. Now, imagine that
that is your nose skin. The strawberry covered in a thick layer of white
chocolate is how it SHOULD look, the upper epidermal layer of the skin
unscarred. In my case, the scars which were created would cause the strawberry
to look as though someone took a knife and shaved off several layers of the
white chocolate icing, revealing the rough, reddened texture of the strawberry
itself (we'll call this the underneath, dermal layer.) Then in some cases, the
white icing would be gone altogether - my scars are of varying depths and
lenghts, how lovely.SO, not only do I now have these indented scars, BUT the texture of the skin
in the scar itself is of a different texture than the rest of my nose (akin to
the icing or chocolate on the strawberry.) Can either CO2 laser OR CoolTouch
lasers both build up the dermal layer in the skin so as to fill in these
indented scars AND also somehow return the skin over the scar to its prior
appearance? OR do you end up with scars which are filled in somewhat, but the
skin is still rough in texture, as in the strawberry anology?Whew, way too long a message, but simply trying to gain some insigts, Welcome
input from anyone, thank you again.Pamela
Cameron RE: exfoliation -- Anna, 23:13:47 01/05/03 SunCameron,
I read in a naturopathic remedy book that you can make a very effective non
irritating exfoliative by combining 25% baking soda, 25% table salt, and 50%
olive oil. Scrub your face or wherever with it and then rinse well.
Surprisingly, the olive oil is actually supposed to help break down the skin
plugs and not cause breakouts. I'd say it is worth a try.
Cameron -- Denise1, 21:00:51 01/05/03 SunIf you are that sensitive, you probably oughta lay off all products that are
irritating you. Beth and several others who post here practically ruined their
skin using glycolic products. Take heed and back off of them if you know for a
fact they are irritating you. Your skin is saying: ABORT MISSION ABORT MISSION
ABORT MISSION!Now, what you can do is use something with kinetin in it. I read a recent
study that compared kinetin to glycolic products and they did pretty much the
same, but kinetin is very soothing and exfoliates slowly. Almay and The Body
Shop make some products with kinetin. I also think Estee Lauder has a product
that utilizes sugar to exfoliate, but I cannot think of the name, SORRY!I hope that helps.
To RF RE: Dermasanding -- Anna, 20:46:32 01/05/03 SunThanks RF. I had done this myself years ago on some scars I had on my forehead
and one on my check. I didn't know it at the time but luckily I have the
perfect skin for dermabrasion; very pale. I used silicone carbide sandpaper
after icing my skin and would say my scars improved 50 -70%. I have read some
medical posts regarding dermasanding and some have mentioned the silicone
carbide and drywall sanders ( both available at the hardware store). Some of
the information I have read is that dermabrasion cannot truly be a sterile
procedure anyway. That said, I tried looking for medical grade sandpaper too
and couldn't find any. Anyway, I wouldn't recommend this to anyone else either
as the risk for damage is too great. Sometimes when we are desperate we do
very risky things though. However, I was hoping the treatment was going well
for you. Blessings to you in 2003!
Acne Breakouts when Exfoliating Skin -- Cameron, 18:17:01 01/05/03 SunDoes anyone else experience acne breakouts when they exfoliate their skin? I
would like to exfoliate my skin so that it rapidly regenerates, but regardless
of how I do it, it causes me to break out. I've used products containing
glycolic acid (Tri-Reduction skin exfoliation cream, glycolic acid-based
facial cleansers), retin-A, and other things. I've also tried shaving with a
razor (non-electric) and using a wash cloth to wash my face. All these things
leave my skin dry and red and looking terrible as well. Does anyone have any
ideas?Thanks.
Hey Eric! -- Denise1, 15:28:18 01/05/03 SunThanks for telling me about the strongest copper peptide product, I didn't
know about it, but will definately get some!My next step is this. I plan on getting one more TCA peel in 6-8 weeks. I knew
when I got my first one this week that I would probably do another one. The
reason being is that the first may or may not do what most people want done.
What I'm specifically working on is reducing my pore size even more. The
"orange peel" look is greatly reduced...bigtime....with what I've done so far.
After that, no more peels unless for maintenance for a long, long, time. I
don't want to overdo my skin. Thank goodness I have tough skin that can
withstand strong peels. The TCA has softened ALL my scars including my
icepicks...though they are definately still there. But I think another TCA
peel close to the first one will stimulate some collagen, and make my pores
smaller. This is good because I still have some active acne. Large pores are
one of the reasons for breakouts. In any event, I will have one more TCA peel
in 6-8 weeks.And please...no one needs to tell me about getting TCA peels too close
together. This isn't that uncommon at all for people to do. The lady who did
my TCA peel has done over 60 of them and people choose to do this all the
time, and she hasn't seen one complication from doing it.To tell the truth, I really didn't think the TCA peel was that big of a deal!
I mean....it's not even remotely close to getting a phenol peel! That would be
dangerous.Then, after healing from that, I'll have needling done. Depending upon how
that session goes, I'll have more done if needed. At that point, I think I'll
be done. Thank goodness!Both of these are good, cheap options for me. I simply don't have the money to
get more expensive treatments. Plus, I really don't see where the efficacy of
more expensive treatments would do me any better than these I've mentioned.I will *DEFINATELY* get some of the SuperDuperCopperPeptideScarReducing
formula you spoke of!I didn't know about it, but will get some immediately. Thanks again. That's
where I'm at with everything.Take care, and let us know what's up with you.
ISOLAGEN -- leandro, 12:32:42 01/05/03 SunCan somebody give me the information of ISOLAGEN. Well if ISOLAGEN is not a
filler(a medicine used to inject a scar tissue then clone to your new own
collagen)then acne scars are history. Which means a new MIRACLE drug(to
surface acne depress scars)is born!!!!!!!
ISOLAGEN -- leandro, 12:21:33 01/05/03 Sunhttp://www.dermadoctor.com/pages/newsletter50.asp?WID=%7B2EC9CA57-05D0-11D7-917F-0002B330452B%7D
http://www.faceofman.com.sg/isolagen.htm
http://www.aaaskindoctor.com/newis.html
http://www.lipaugmentation.com/biocatalysts.htm
HOpe this information is enough
ISOLAGEN -- leandro of the philippines, 11:52:37 01/05/03 SunHi Everyone please check http://www.alscosmetic.co.uk/pris.asp
http://www.isolagen.com/UKver/pages/isolagenme/howitworks.htm
I cant understand what is the meaning of isolagen. Is it a permanent filler?
or a substance used to inject depress scars then fibroblasts directly below
and into the scar and grow new collagen(means the medicine injected inside the
scar will form your own natural skin collagen) to redefine the original skin
surface?
If this is not a filler(a medicine injected then produce your own new skin
collagen) i think all of us can solve our acne scars.Right!!
Hi Denise!!! -- Eric, 06:35:32 01/05/03 SunHey Denise-
Just read your post and am I very happy to learn of your success on treating
your acne scars. You sound happy about waht you have accomplished so far and
are excited about the prospect of achieving even better improvement as the new
year begins. I feel exactly the same way!! When the clock chimed midnight and
the ball dropped in New York, I raised my champagne glass and swore an oath to
conquer my acne scarring. Hopefully this will be the year!! What other
procedures are you considering for your scars? I am happy to plug along using
copper peptides, Exfol Serum, and Retin-A for a while... I have already had
positive improvments in my skin and can't wait to see how it will look at the
end of THIS year! If I decide I want to hurry things up, I think I may check
with Dr. Ed Becker or Dr. Rullan about the Exoderm Lift or even the
Exodermology Center in Israel towards the end of the year.In any case, guys... it's another year! More technological and anti-aging
process is made!! New treatments and more improved methods will arise as
doctors continue to gain skill and experience with both new and existing
techniques!By the way Denise, Dr. Pickart has a new product on his website that he has
been giving out samples for called Super Cop, the strongest clinically tested
copper peptide solution to date. Have you tried this on your acne scars?
Please get back to me on how you are doing!-Eric
Please help -- FrankY, 03:43:45 01/05/03 SunHey all I am 24 and once again i'm breaking out. It sall started when I was
16ish... Doc put me on Antibiotic... cleared up. Year later... More acne...
new antibiotic... CLeared up. All in all I took Amoxicillin, Dynacin,
Minocycline, Tetracycline, Doxycycline. Through this long yourney I have
developed many large pores / shallow scars I guess on my cheeks. BUT, it seems
like whenever i cleared up completely these "scars" kind of went away for the
most part... wierd. Anyone else have this. Anyway last year I was getting hard
cysts like in mye eyebrows and around the temple area and the doc put me on
Ampicillin which clear me up like crazy ...and after about 7 months i stopped
it. Thats was 2 months ago... no I have started to break out again and my
scars look visable again!!!!! I seriously think I am messed up hardcrore from
being on antibiotics. Please what do I do to completely cleanse myself the
absolute fastest and boost my immune system. Can i take large doses of Vitamin
A safely and effectively? I was eating whatever I wanted when I was on
ampicillin... donuts, pizza, mcdonalds etc etc... Can I still. Also I want to
get a series of TCA peels , BUT i have 2 isolated cysts right now and if
accutane is my only option right now how would O go about having this done???
Please help... Im sorry for the long post.. I am so desperate, I am messed up
in the head I guess you could say cause all I can remember my whole life is
people complementing me on my looks... It's all I feel that I have... I cant
lose it
laser -- Tania, 03:24:28 01/05/03 SunIm a 32 year old female, who suffered from acne since 15. During my 20's it
came and went and often leaving small ice pick scars regardless of whether or
not I squeezed the pustules or not.I have spent hundreds on Ella Bache, Guinot and french products. I also take a
contraceptive pill "Diane" which stops breakouts.Als I had spent thousands of dollars on microdermabrasion and
superdermabrasion (done at a plastic surgeon) from over $100 per treatment.I finally was so sick and tired of seeing and loathing my skin in broad
daylight and especially artificial light, that I decided to have laser surgery
- with erbium lazer.I read everything I could about the proceedure and saw the plastic surgeon a
handful of times before i felt safe.
Drastic measures but the result is well worth it! I did not have any pain
after the proceedure - although my face was a swollen as a watermelon, weeping
slightly and pink. I had to take tablets to counteract and viruses (eg: cold
sore), and another pill (i cant remember the name). The only other thing i had
to do was to rub in some lubricant every 3 hours of so, sleep with cotton
gloves and take a antihistame (incase of any itchiness). (You need to take
about 2 weeks off work).The swelling went down after 7 days and I was able to go out with makeup on.
My face was still abit flushed looking for 2 months after, but nothing
extraordinary.The results were fantastic! I wish i had of had it done alot sooner and saved
myself alot of heartache. The plastic surgeon has given me a cream called
"Differin" which inhibits sebum production, for use all over the face. And
this is all the skin care i seem to need now.signed: estatic.
To Anna-re: dermasanding -- RF, 02:34:00 01/05/03 SunI took the risk with the home dermasanding on two small areas on each cheek.
(about the size of a nickle) I did each area twice, spaced about 5 weeks
apart. With each time I stayed at home for 4-5 days as I was unable to wear
make-up. It took about 10 days before the spots quit peeling enough to feel
comfortable with makeup. I did receive some improvement in the areas treated,
but my cheeks have MANY old acne scars including multiple ice picks. To
receive any significant improvement would probably require a major
dermabrasion plus other procedures. I think I received at least as much
improvement as I would have received from a good microdermabrasion. I might
would do it again in the future especially if I could find some medical grade
sandpaper. This is not something I would recommend to anyone as it carries a
risk of infection and/or scarring. Incidentally, I contacted Dr. Alkek's
office (mentioned by others on this board) but the office never responded. I
read on this board that he charges $5000 for a dermabrasion. For that much
money I would want to feel very confident that there would be a lot of
improvement.
Cityslicker RE: Dr. Alkek -- Anna, 18:58:18 01/04/03 SatCityslicker,
Was the $5000 Dr. Alkek quoted for a full face dermabrasion? Would you need
that or wouldn't a spot dermabrasion work? That price should be much lower.
You might want to check into it. I suppose you have looked into subcision too?
Anyway, best of luck to you! Here is to improvement in 2003! Cheers!
KM -- M, 18:21:59 01/04/03 SatMy plastic surgeon sent his Cooltouch back to the company, he said it did
nothing.I don't know about Cooltouch II.
M
Ping - Thanks -- Amis, 16:59:18 01/04/03 SatPing, Thanks for the contact number.
Depressed Scar -- Cityslicker, 10:50:56 01/04/03 SatMikey, my depressed scar on my left cheek is only about the size of a dime.
Still, I'm very bothered by it, even more so, since I was trying to correct a
scar and improve it. And now, not only does that scar look worse but sunken in
and slightly burned that skin. Dr. Rappaport stated that I lost the structural
integrity in that area.LisaH, thank you for the info. on Dr. Alkek. I live in Arlington, Tx. and I
had spoken to his office previously, about 3 months ago, but wasn't aware that
Restylane was offered by him. I wasn't keen on the $85 office visit just for
his brief consultation. Also, he does more dermabrasions than anyone in Texas
but for $5000, wasn't sure if I'm prepared to go that extreme.To answer your question about cost, Dr. Capriotti quoted me $4500 for Exoderm,
$2500 for Laser (cheeks and crows feet around eyes) and $450 for Cooltouch II
whole face, per visit.
To Banana -- ping, 09:42:21 01/04/03 SatBanana,
If you have scars that are close to one another just like me, you need to
space out the surgery. The dermatologist seeing you will advise you on that.
The sitches are going to remain on the face for about five days which after
that the nurse will remove it for you.If you are thinking of doing it one time, 2 weeks is very sufficient. My deep
scars on my cheeks did appear much shallow and narrow after excisions.So, anymore questions, just ask me. No problem with me.
Excision in Singapore -- Banana, 05:57:57 01/04/03 SatHi Ping,
Could I check with you how long you had your stitches on for? I was thinking
of taking 2 weeks off work!Also, how did your deeper scars respond? Did they become narrower and
shallower?Thanx so much for your advice.
Jordan -- ping, 04:35:31 01/04/03 SatJordan,
The new laser in NSC is called smoothbeam. I think it is quite similar to
cooltouch in a way that both are used to promote the synthesis of new
collagen. The price of one treatment is about $250 for the entire face when it
was introduced last year. I'm not sure about now.
Excision in NSC -- ping, 04:21:24 01/04/03 SatBanana,
I have done 3 excisions last year for my deep scars.
Actually, it's a mixed result. Some scars on my cheeks respond quite well but
then those at the temples didn't and in fact they have become much wider!But, you may have to stay away from the public because of the sitches around
the face.To sum it up, this procedure is actually good in improving the appearance of
some of the scars.
Jane -- SA, 02:52:12 01/04/03 SatHello Jane,
I was wondering where you live so I could visit your esthecian. I live in
California. I am having a hard time finding someone who knows what I want.
Isolagen -- bc, 01:43:28 01/04/03 SatHello,I've been visiting this board for about 6 months now,but this is the
first time I'm posting.Does anyone know anything about Isolagen?I have been
researching it but there is not a lot of information available.Most of these
other procedures,particularly anything involving the use of a laser, look
ineffective and/or ghoulish.Isolagen appears genuinely promising and seems
rooted in actual science.Can anyone tell me if they've had the process done or
give me the name of a doctor?I've both E-mailed and called the Isolagen
corporation but they have been of no use.i live in New York.thank You.
Cool Touch Question -- KM, 22:49:23 01/03/03 FriMy son is 19 years old and had severe, cystic acne a few years back and was on
Accutane after 2 years of antibiotic treatment. He's been left with scarring.
I have been looking into Cool Touch treatments and would be interested in any
feedback if anyone out there has had this laser treatment. The physician I
have been talking to is suggesting 5 treatments.
Cityslickersuken -- mikey, 22:37:01 01/03/03 FriCityslicker I was wondering how big in diameter are your suken scars?? i have
a sunken scar on my left cheek and was looking for a way to lift it up, its
about the size of a quarter.
CitySlicker -- Lisa H, 17:33:22 01/03/03 FriCityslicker, Thanks for the update. Let us know what the lady says in Tulsa
about the needling. I noticed she removed that service from her website and
had me concerned. If you are interested in a filler (restylane)- during my
research I found Dr Alkek (he has a wesite) who has been doing it for a while.
Just though I would mention him so you would not have to drive all the way to
Houston. I just had my first Cool Touch 2 treatment the other day. I paid $225
for her to treat my temples and cheeks. It was a simple treatment but can't
say I notice any results yet. She said that it would be no problem for me to
get a filler and continue with the cool touch 2 treatments. She only did 2
passes with the laser and says she will not do more than 2 passes so I may try
to find someone who can get a little more aggressive. How much is Capriotti
charging? Like you I am going to try many different treatments until I am
happy with my skin. Good Luck
Leandro - subscision needle -- Sarah, 17:12:57 01/03/03 FriThe subscision needle is NOT like a normal hypodermic needle. As the previous
poster said, it has a special cutting tip, like a blade. The needle is quite
large in diameter so that is is strong enough to be moved back and forth under
the skin without breaking. It is also a NOKOR needle, which means it doesn't
have a hole in it for fluid to be injected. This is important because the hole
in the needle would cut a core in your skin which you don't want when your are
doing subscision, with such a large needle a core would leave a big entry
wound. That's why it's called NOKOR (no core).
subcision needle -- anna, 16:27:05 01/03/03 FriThe subcision needle has a special cutting tip so it isn't a normal needle. I
think it's called a Trocor (sp?) needle.
Excision in Singapore -- Banana, 15:33:55 01/03/03 FriHello fellow Singaporeans,
Anyone done excision for acne scars at NSC before? Any good?
SUBCISION NEEDLE -- leandro, 14:40:01 01/03/03 Frihi everybody, I just want to ask something about its needles. Is subcision
needle the same as the needle used in anesthesia? Can the needles be brought
from drug stores..?? If yes i want to buy one and have it subcise myself...
Scar on Cheek- May -- Cityslicker, 09:29:38 01/03/03 FriMay, the scars on my cheeks are still there and actually looks a little worse
as a cyst developed on my left side right in the center of the sunken spot. I
think its sunken slightly more since I've been fooling with that. My right
side is minor and I could live with it if I had to on that side. I have
several things to try this year but it will be slowly over several months.
I've seen Dr. Capriotti (Cosmetic Surgeon) in Houston a couple of months back.
He performs Laser and Exoderm, but recommended Laser for me, as he felt the
Exoderm was more aggressive and that I wouldn't want to go thru the downtime
of Exoderm (his opinion). Though, I wasn't particularly swayed by that, I did
find it interesting he was recommending laser instead. He also felt 3
Cooltouch 2 treatments would benefit me to the extent where laser or Exoderm
would not be needed, and he felt that Fat Transfer (injection) would benefit
the sunken in area's sufficiently enough, that I would be satisfied. I voiced
my concern, that I'd heard Fat Injections don't work, and he said, well, if
you lay it down right they do. He said there was an art and technique to it
and if done right, it would take after several treatments. I also seen Dr.
Chaney (Plastic Surgeon)in Houston, he recommended Laser also, and said if I
waited til Spring that he felt Restalyne or Artecoll (I can't remember which
one he said) would benefit those sunken area's enough that he felt I'd be
happy with that filler. I haven't decided which treatment to pursue but I'm
leaning towards a combination of several treatments combined. I will be
consulting about Skin Needling with a lady in Tulsa, I'm considering Copper
Peptides, Cooltouch 2 and I may fly out to consult with Dr. Rullan about
Exoderm and his opinion. I may fly to Israel for the original Exoderm also,
all I know is: I'm committed to making progress to some degree, this year.
I've already scheduled to take off the whole month of October to pursue either
Exoderm or Laser, if Skin Needling and or Cooltouch 2, Copper Peptides, etc.,
don't benefit me before then. I'm about to have hernia surgery in a few weeks,
so it may be a few months before I can start pursuing some of my options, but
I will definately keep the board updated.
To Ping & Jordan - Thank you -- Nin, 08:38:50 01/03/03 FriPing & Jordan - Thank you for the nice words.
I'm doing ok at the moment.
My Arthritis doctor is the President of the Rheumatoid Arthritis Society, so I
can get plenty of advises from him.No visible results from my first Cooltouch treatment as yet. I'll wait till
the third.Dr Cheong will make sure you apply plenty of SUNBLOCK after the treatment. So
I did and still do :-)By the way, I also had ND:YAG done together with my Cooltouch.
To Amis -- ping, 08:23:10 01/03/03 FriThe number is 68361480.
The clinic is inside Mount E Medical Centre.
To : cityslicker - how about the scar on your cheek 3/01/03 -- May, 07:38:24
01/03/03 FriI've seen your post about getting your cheek scar sunk by 2%salicyclic acid.
Has it gone way now ? Have you been able to do anything about it? Why I asK?
well, I got burn by this acid as well, some skin shrunk in the cheek area. So
see if anything could help.
Elcina-Micky -- Cityslicker, 06:51:58 01/03/03 FriHi Micky, I don't have a personal testimony on Elcina as I've never used, but
from my understanding it would take more than a week to see results. I read
2-3 different message boards and have seen several postings on Elcina. Most of
the reviews have been mixed with about half the people saying it was improving
their skin and scars and the other half stating they seen no benefit at all. I
certainly wouldn't call that a scam, but by the same token, clearly it helps
some and not others. :-) Cityslicker
Copper Peptides -- Cityslicker, 06:39:09 01/03/03 FriEric, Thank you for your very informative post. I've copied and saved many of
your post and always look forward to your opinions and insight. I'm interested
in trying the procedures you've described in the next couple of months. Thanks
again!!! :-) Cityslicker
Hi Eric! -- Denise1, 04:54:47 01/03/03 FriBeen using the copper peptides for about one full year (with the exception of
probably a six week period scattered throughout that year) and I agree. They
help tremendously. Ofcourse I've done other things, but even before doing the
v-beam laser treatments, the boxcar type scar I had had disappeared to the
point of being almost not even noticeable with foundation. With this TCA peel
I just got, ofcourse it's even better. When I stretch the scar, it totally
disappears. I remember sitting in my family physicians' office and her looking
in particular at the boxcar type scar and some other scars and looking at me
like one would a run over puppy dog....like you know...PO THANG.Now, with the minimal things I've done (remember...combination of peels,
microderm, v-beam laser and now this tca), I'm pretty pleased. I do still
intend on getting some needling done. Not just to some scars, but also to some
lines. What the heck!But yeah, I do recommend them and like the science behind them. The serum is
very, very soothing for after peels. The lady at Homepeels, Cathi, is
incredibly helpful and strongly recommended the products a year ago when I
first used them.
Contact for Dr Cheong's Clinic -- Amis, 02:03:33 01/03/03 FriCould anyone here who has gone to see Dr Cheong at Mt E please email me her
clinic address and contact number ? I'm thinking of going to her for
consultation and possibly for the CoolTouch treatment.
Copper Peptides and Hydroxy Acids for Acne Scar Removal -- Eric, 00:09:32
01/03/03 FriHi everyone-
Just wanted to stop by and let you all in on a bit of info I've picked up
lately. I have been doing research for a while on topical solutions for acne
scars, as I have been off of Accutane only a little over 4 months and it will
be awhile before surgical procedures can be used. At this point, however,
surgical methods may not be necessary.My main area of focus of late has been on the use of Skin Biology's copper
peptide creams and hydroxy acids for the reduction and eventual removal of
acne scars. *note, I said Removal... and meant it! Dr. Pickart, the inventor
of this technology has recently updated his website regarding acne scar
treatment. I have gotten pretty good results so far on my acne scars using
Skin Biology's Exfol Serum with the CP Serum or TriReduction Basic. I have
also been using Retin-A nightly when possible in conjunction with the
TriReduction to speed exfoliation. Dr. Pickart is now addressing that
sometimes the Exfol Serum alone may not produce enough exfoliation to loosen
tougher scars, particularly in people with oily skin. He recommends in this
case that a stronger hydroxy acid may be used to speed results. He cites an
example of using the Exfol Serum and also, twice weekly, doing a 30% glycolic
acid peel, such as those obtainable on www.homepeels.com. He says this should
produce stronger dissolving of the scar tissue if needed and produce a
stronger rebuilding process when combined with copper peptides.Use of copper for scars is relatively new and many dermatologists and plastic
surgeons still know little if anything about this. Many dermatologists have
estheticians working in their offices because they themselves do not
specialize in topical skin renewal products, and only know surgical methods
such as laser or dermabrasion. Dr. Pickart has done extensive research into
the area of copper peptide useage for skin regeneration and remodeling and is
of the strong opinion that any scar, including pitted and ice pick acne scars,
can be removed using copper peptides and hydroxy acids... and that those
plastic surgeons and dermatologists who tell people that scars are forever do
not have a good understanding of skin biochemistry and tissue regeneration.I have found the skin biology website to be very informative. Also, the Skin
Biology forum on Delphi Forums is a great resource for discussing the usage of
copper peptides for skin regeneration with other people, as well as with Dr.
Pickart himself. To any interested in acne scar removal, I strongly encourage
you to check out:1)www.skinbiology.com
2)www.scar-reduction.com
3)www.delphiforums.comFYI I do not work for Dr. Pickart and am not "hawking" his products, but I
have examined the research and exchanged e-mails with Dr. Pickart and have
found the information to build a strong case for acne scar removal. At least
one other person on this website, Denise1 (hi Denise :)) has used copper
peptides and experienced some benefit.Check out the research and let me know what you guys think...
-Eric
Non-Ablative Laser Facial Rejuvenation in NSC -- Jordan, 15:15:21 01/02/03 Thu
To fellow Singaoporeans: National skin center has a new treatment for wrinkles
and scars using 1450 nm diode laser. You can look at some information about it
in its website.Did anyone out there know what it is and whether the treatment is good? Hope
that someone can enlighten me on it.To Nin, I am sorry to hear about your problems with both the scars and
Arthritis. Like waht you said, health is more important than being scar free.
Hope you will find solutions to both the problems soon.To ping, good luck to your treatment soon. Update us soon and hope that your
skin will improve after the treatment. All the best.
Cortisone Injection Nightmare -- FrankY, 15:09:14 01/02/03 ThuHey all ok last week I got a cortisone injection in a cyst i had developing in
the right corner of my nose above my mouth, now a week later i cannot really
tell cause there is still a small bump from the injection but i think it may
be sinking!!! it is however a deep purple in color and I want to fade it fast
as possible so i can tell. So please someone tell me since it is fairly new is
there anything at all I can do to keep it from scarring, scarring worse, to
fade it and to make the small bump finally go away??? Thanks!!! Please help me
asap I Hate these scars
Carmela -- Denise1, 14:09:21 01/02/03 ThuI just had a 35% TCA peel this week, and am currently peeling like a snake.
Well, I'm very glad I did it. But let me tell you something. It's not going to
do your scars but so good. I got it more for pore size, a bit of tightening,
and blotchiness. I may get another one in 8 weeks, or I may get needling done.
Read further down for info. on needling if you don't know what it is.It's not a *miracle* for acne scars. But you can get a couple of them, spaced
a few months apart for some improvement. It's not going to do anything for bad
or severe scars. I went into getting the TCA peel with my eyes wide open that
it wasn't a miracle.What have I noticed most on my new skin? A softening of ALL my scars, and an
incredible, beautiful, NO PORE LOOK. WOW. That's amazing!The process hasn't been that bad.
Do some word searches on TCA peel in your search engine to read more about TCA
peels. Do your homework and have realistic expectations. Also, do a lot of
calling around to get the best price on a TCA. I was quoted $300, $700, and
$2,000, all in ONE CITY!It did bring some whiteheads to the surface too, but that's no big deal. Just
be realistic. I don't know how bad your scars are, but if they are beyond
shallow, your results will only be minimal. Hope that helps, and blessings on
your search for clearing your scarring.
To Nin -- ping, 10:28:31 01/02/03 ThuHi Nin, it's me, ping.
How is it going on for you? Hope that you are fine.
I couldn't give any advice on your arthritis, but don't forget to apply
sunscreen after every laser treatment. I think it's important to do so
especially in singapore.
Just like now, one moment, the weather can be scorching hot, and now it is
pouring heavily!Anyway, I am going for my first cooltouch on Sat. Hope we can benefit from
this treatment.
The Classic Chemical Peeling -- carmela, 09:57:49 01/02/03 Thuhey guys, i stumbled upon this forum just now and i'm very glad i did. i'm 17
years old and i've had acne since 11. my face is pretty clear now, but the
scars are so prominient i kinda resemble my 50-year-old dad. my dermatologist,
who was responsible for clearing up my active acne now recommends TCA peeling.
Has anyone here tried that? She told me to be realistic and she told me it's
never really gonna be completely gone but i would really like to hear from any
of you who had the experience. please please share your experience to me it
would be very much appreciated.
TO KATE - Arthritis -- Nin, 05:42:09 01/02/03 ThuHello Kate
I just turned 27 years old few days ago. I started to have Rheumatoid
Arthritis since 2000. I do not understand what you mean by "What type of
Arthritis do you have". But I try to explain. I started to have pains on both
my knees. I couldn't walk. I had to crawl. Few months later I was diagnosed
with RA. My conditions became worst. I started to have pains on all my joints.
Too serious that I couldn't breath as my lungs and chest swell too. I was put
on many different medications. In 2000, I went for X-rays and all bones and
joints looked OK. 2 weeks ago, I went for an X-ray and results showed that my
bones are narrowing, I could see them very clearly on the X-ray films. But no
signs of eroding. At the moment, I do not have terrible pain on my knees, just
slight permanent stiffness. But I cannot do work using my right hand as the
bones on my wrist are shifting and narrowing and I feel pain 24 hours a day.These are what I'm taking daily:-
Salazopyin x 6
Tramal x 2
Prednisolone x 1
Vioxx x 2
Calcium x 1
Panadeine (When necessary)
And few others which I don't have the names with me now.Ablasive lasers such CO2, Erbium Yag and injectible treatments such as
Collagen or even subcision can cause the rheumatoid factor to flares up and
cause us to have much much more pain. And as we have problem with the immune
system, ablative lasers will cause us to have bruises and extremely long time
for the skin to heal or maybe never recover at all. I do not want to take the
risk of having pink face my whole life. Therefore Cooltouch, IPL or Chemical
peel would be one of those safest few.My Advise to you, please do not forgo the arthritis medications for a scar
free face. I'm a member of the National Arthritis Society and I've seen the
results of patients who had forgo medications. They had turned handicap. So
please take care.
ELICINA a hoax? -- Micky, 01:43:58 01/02/03 ThuWell, i ordered some ELICINA, and i've only been on it for about a week, it
has glycolic acid, elastine,allantoin, and collagen... i don't really notice
any improvements so far, maybe i have to keep at it for a LONG period of time?Has/or is anyone here taking ELICINA or something like it, and seeing
improvements? if so, what type of scars do you have, and how long has it taken
to see improvements.I have some small scars that i really don't care about, but there are a few
deep scars on my face that look like i was mamed by an animal. Anyway, would
like to hear testimonials.another thing that makes me skeptic is, i only heard about ELICINA from spam
on message boards, i don't even think anyone has really tried it, but i could
be wrong anyway.
please inform me.Micky
Hey Anna and others interested in microderm/peel combos -- Denise1, 20:02:24
01/01/03 WedI just had my TCA peel on Monday at a plastic surgeon who has Bio-Medic
products. Evidently this type of combo is something that Bio-medic does. I
believe it is called a micropeel plus.They even will add dry ice to your skin at then end of the microderm/peel
combo to kill bacteria and close pores. I had read about it on Bio-Medic's
website and asked the lady who did my TCA peel if she did the procedure, and
she said yes. Therefore, Anna, and other interested parties, you may want to
call around various plastic surgeon's in your area (from the phonebook) and
ask if they do this particular procedure. I think it is relatively new, but
the woman who did my TCA said that it's very good, and very good for (still
active) acne also. She said that the dry ice is excellent for killing
bacteria-causing acne. But she also added that this is a good, aggressive
treatment for acne scars also, and that she has seen good results with it.Evidently, it's something that Bio-Medic has in their product line. Therefore,
if you can tolerate this, it may work well for you.I havn't done it, so I'm not endorsing it, but Anna, if you are looking for
this type of treatment, than you may want to see if someone in your area has
Bio-Medic products and procedures and ask about the micro-peel plus that
combines microderm/peel/dry ice combo. Good luck!
Anna -- Jane, 19:55:30 01/01/03 WedMy Esthetician is in Houston. I think you could obtain similar results if you
find someone who has a Megapeel machine and uses the Biomedic products. The
Esthetician who is treating me had severe acne and acne scars. She reports
being able to fix her scars over the course of a year with the use of acid
peels--they did not have the Megapeel machine at that point. She now gets
microderms once a month for maintenance. I believe the key is getting the
microderms done weekly and having them done aggressively followed by acid
peels every other week. Good Luck!
To : NIN re: your scar treatment options -- Kate, 18:30:45 01/01/03 WedHi Nin,
I read your post where you stated you have Arthritis. I too have
arthritis-rheumatoid. I also have scar problems.
May I ask what type of arthritis you have? What type of treatment are you
taking for it? I ask only because I am wondering if your arthritis doc ruled
out all of your scar treatment options-which ones and why? My arthritis doc
wants me to try Enbrel injections or Remicade transfusions-if this is what you
are on-did your doc say you could not have ANY medical procedures for your
scars? If so-what options did he leave you with to treat your scars? I am
concerned now- if I can't have any scar treatments done while on arthritis
meds- then I will forgo the meds until I get these scars fixed. Any info from
you would be GREATLY appreciated. Thanks much.
Jane re Microdermabrasion -- Anna, 17:12:20 01/01/03 WedJane,
Where is your aesthetician? I'd love to see her. Please say Seattle!
Jack -- Jane, 01:13:16 01/01/03 WedI thought I posted a message already but didn't see it. I hope I am not
posting two messages. I have been getting the microdermabrasion every week. I
had the acid peels done after the first and third microderms. I noticed that
my face peeled significantly after the combination micro/acid peel, not as
much with only the micro. The biggest difference was in my icepick scar which
has gotten significantly shallower. I also noticed a reduction in
discoloration after the last peel. My Esthetician believes my skin has already
smoothed out. I still notice slight indentions in very dim lighting. I will
continue to get the microdermabrasions until I stop seeing improvement. She is
charging me $40/ week to treat the scars that are on both cheek areas. I
consider this very reasonable as she seems very committed to improvement and
spends a lot of time on my problem areas. The plastic surgeon she works with
says he will follow up with laser surgery if I am not happy with the
improvement. He considers collagen to be worthless; however, he did say I
could wait until the spring and try Restalyn (SP?). I hope I will not even
need more drastic treatments as I am already seeing so much improvement. Also,
I am not breaking out at all any more which is a benefit of microdermabrasion
and salicylic acid peels.
Dermasanding to RF -- Anna, 23:05:16 12/31/02 TueI was wondering if you were still doing your home dermasanding treatments and,
if so, what your results have been?. Happy New Year!
Chandler and Jane -- Lisa H, 22:32:57 12/31/02 TueChandler - I was concerned about the 'donut' effect as well. I think this
would happen if the scars are bound down. According to the following website
you can perform a stretch test. If they are bound down I guess one could do
excision or subcision. I do have a few scars that are still visible when they
are stretched but I am going to try it anyway since most of them dissappear.
My appt is in 2 weeks."A stretch test may be performed (by pulling the skin taut) on each scar to
assess optimal treatment capability. If the scar is eliminated when the skin
is pulled taut, full correction may be achieved."http://www.derm.net/zy_wr_acne_scars.shtml
Jane - How are your old scars improving with your treatment. My scars are 7
years old and wondering if the treatment would be helpful or if it is only
good for new scars.
UNITE! -- Larry, 20:00:26 12/31/02 TueHAPPY NEW YEAR! That u all have the most wonderful year of all the other
years.Larry
ditto Jane -- cb, 19:28:04 12/31/02 TueHey Jane, it sounds like your micro/peel treatments are working out pretty
good.The way you described how your skin reacted after your last treatment it's
almost as if the scarred areas/pits healed up the rest of the way from their
original damage? Glad you have a good specialist on your side. Wish we could
all say that.cb
jane - peels, micro -- jack, 16:28:25 12/31/02 Tuehi jane,
congratulations on your successful treatment. And to think! in only 3 weeks!
Might I ask you what your frequency of having micros and peels done is? once a
week each? and how long in between the micro and peels? (i.e. micro on monday,
peel on thursday, ever week?)thank you!
jack
Skin Biology.com site -- Bob, 01:58:45 12/31/02 TueI've been doing a lot of searching trying to find the best choice for my
depressed and pitted acne scars. I left a post here not long ago saying I was
using rose hip oil. It's been about 4 weeks now and I can't see any
improvement. I'm abandoning using it because from what I've recently learned
is that the scar must have some irritation and then a rebuilding process
occurs. It doesn't seem to me that that was occuring with rose hip oil. Of
course there's the chance I'm giving up on it too soon; but it's apparent to
me the chances are it won't work so I want to move on. I now know much more
than I did. I've looked around a lot and I haven't found anywhere that is as
informative as Dr Pickart's website. This voy website is great in it's own way
of course. I absolutely do not work for Pickart's products in any way. I'm
just someone with bad acne scars and wish I had known about his website sooner
and am writing this because I figure there is others who would like to know
this. I was very impressed with how much detail is at his website. I ordered
the trireduction combo today and am looking forward to beginning. Since my
scars have been with me for over 30 years now I know I will need to have
patience. It sure seems promising though. I'll report back in a month or so
and say if I'm seeing any results yet. For anyone who wants to be able to do a
lot of reading about acne scars his website is www.skinbiology.com Also, I
want to thank Cityslicker for repying to my post not long ago.
Jane microdermabrasion -- Mikey, 00:18:10 12/31/02 TueThanks jane for you information I had the same reaction with retin a. I use to
get acne that did not leave indented scars when I started using retin a I got
big cytic acne which left intendation all over my face forhead and both my
cheeks. My derm put me on accutane which finally solved my acne problem. I
dont have acne anymore but i feel like im still at the same boat because of
the scars.
Bobby and Mikey -- Jane, 23:58:51 12/30/02 MonI had a severe reaction to Retin-A in september which left about seven
indented scars on my face that were dark red in color. I was very upset by
this, as the Retin-A caused a cystic acne break-out like I have never had
before.I began aggressive microdermabrasions followed by salicylic acid peels three
weeks ago. after the last micro (week ago Monday) and acid peel, my face
formed scabs over my worse pits. My face began to itch very badly over the
weekend. a layer of skin peeled off and the scabs were gone. The pits are
completely level with the rest of my skin. The Esthecian's goal is to knock
out the sleaves of the pits to make them level with the pit itself. I was very
skeptical as I have not heard many success stories with microdermabrasion on
acne pitted scaring. I have very olive skin and did not want to risk
de-pigmentation with laser or dermabrasion. I have slight pigmentation
problems from a steroid I used on my face ten years ago and would likely have
pigmentation problems with more invasive treatments.
For me, the microdermabrasion has worked very well. I receive the peels
weekly, I will have two more and will be evaluated after that point to see if
any more are necessary. Good luck!
Dermabrasion olive skin -- MIkey, 22:33:54 12/30/02 MonIm wondering if anybody here who has olive skin, asian or hispanic that has
undergone dermabrasion?? What happened when you had it done?? did it cause
permanent hypo or hyperpigmentation?? I have shallow rolling scars on my cheek
that i want to get smooth.
ACNE SCAR SUFFERER -- ANGELICA, 16:47:55 12/30/02 MonHI! I AM 28YEARS OLD I BEGAN NOTICING ACNE SCARS ON MY FACE ABOUT FOUR YEARS
AGO. THAT IS WHEN I BEGAN SHUTTING PEOPLE OUT AND HIDING MYSELF INTO A HOLE.I
HATE LOOKING INTO STORE MIRRORS BECAUSE I CAN'T BELIEVE WHAT I AM SEEING MY
SKIN USED TO BE SO BEAUTIFUL BEFORE NOW I LOOK AT MY HUSBAND AND THINK IN MY
HEAD HIS SKIN LOOKS SO PURE WHILE I FEEL DIRTY AND ASHAMED AND LESS
ATTACTIVE.PLEASE HELP ME, I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW IF ELICINA OR DERMATIQUE CREAM
REALLY WORKS FOR ACNE SCARS.PLEASE HELP!!!! THANK YOU
Lisa H -- Chandler, 12:45:08 12/30/02 MonLovely Lisa H,
thanks a lot for the link. The pics are pretty great and quite funny to be
honest. But it seems to be working well. I am just a bit worried that if the
effect is not to my liking that I'll be stuck with it for 6 months. I read
somewhere that it could pronounce the edges of the scars even more. That
wouldn't be too good.
anyway, thanks again! I hope it will work the best for you!Chandler
Immudyne?? -- Kathy, 05:12:09 12/30/02 MonHi all,
I've never posted here but have been visiting for many months. I came across a
website recently that I wanted to share with you and ask your opinions on.
Check out
www.immudyne.comI can't really explain what this stuff does (the website has some really
intriguing scientific articles that explain in detail how this product
rejuvenates the skin). They've done a study on its effectiveness and it is
supposed to promote skin repair and elasticity. the study was done on post
surgery wounds which they claim healed in 10 days without any scars. I emailed
the company to ask specifically about acne scar repair, I'll let you all know
the response. I'm really curious to know if anyone here has heard about this
or tried it.God Bless,
Kathy
Chandler -- LisaH, 00:53:35 12/30/02 MonChandler,
The following site show a photo of what a filler can do for you. I am planning
on having restylane injections soon for my scars.http://www.nordstromhospital.fi/eBotox.htm
For info on all the different types of fillers:
http://www.yestheyrefake.net/injectable_fillers.htm
All - Looks like another Lisa came on board so I will be LisaH from now on.
Karen...TELL US TELL US! -- Denise1, 00:47:49 12/30/02 MonHow is your skin after you needling session? WHAT ABOUT THOSE DANG BLANE ICE
PICKS?!?!
fat injection -- Chandler, 23:05:21 12/29/02 SunHas anyone here on this board had any success with fat injections? I know that
it is a temporary filler and I wouldn't care about that as long as it works.
There is a wealth of info in regards to using fillers for wrinkles but little
is documented on its effectiveness in elevating depressed scars. At least
there are very few before and after pictures on the net.
I would appreciate any feedback on fat injections or any other filler
material.thanks a lot,
Chandler
Bobby -- Denise1, 19:40:36 12/29/02 SunAntiobiotics tend to make things worse, in the long run, even if they
temporarily help. I was on them for 11 years straight and they almost
destroyed my health. Do a word search on "candida ablicans" and see what you
come up with. That will explain why acne tends to get worse. Also, I'm not
sure if your derm explained that many times Retin A can cause an initial flare
up as your skin purges all the toxins and acne causing plugs deep in your
skin. I don't know if what you're experiencing is a mixture of things or just
the Retin A, or just the antibiotics....not too sure. But one things for
certain, antibiotics may work temporarily, but only make things worse in the
long run. In any event, not too sure what to tell you except that you can
always order Living Nature's brand manuka oil (natural antibiotic) and take a
couple of drops in juice 3 times a day along with some blood cleansing herb
blends you get from the health food store instead of antibiotics and that
should help tremendously. Just beware that when you start Retin A therapy, it
sometimes can seemingly make it worse before it gets better.Or, you can nix all of it and go to Living Nature's website and read for
yourself some acne remedies (www.livingnature.com). I have started using their
products only on my face and I'm amazed at the difference. I think for me
personally, I was overdoing it with my skin and overdrying it. These products
are antibacterial but soothing, and with no chemicals. There are other
alternatives also, like tea tree oil and other things, but manuka honey is I
believe 22 times more potent than tea tree oil and is great at helping with
acne.Anyway, read about various herb remedies, fish oil, vitamin b5 and other
things through word searches and find something that works for you. Don't give
up hope. About a year ago I was at the end of my rope. Now I cannot believe
that I actually have hope.Once you get your acne under control, then you can worry about your scars. I'm
not sure why you have scars now, but didn't before when you broke out.Hang in there!
acne scars from medication? -- bobby, 10:08:33 12/29/02 Suni developed pretty bad acne about 2 years ago and it naturally went away on
its own, surprisingly leaving no scars. about 7 months ago i started breaking
out again so i went to the dermatologist and he prescribed me ERYTHROMYCIN GEL
%2, RETIN-A MICRO 0.04%, and MINOCYCLINE 100MG pills. now ever since i started
this medication, my acne seems to have gotten worse. any single little pimple
i get leaves a scar now, i dont touch them or anything, i just let the
medication do its thing.. and they leave scars. now when i had REALLY bad acne
and never used medication, i never got one scar. now i have about 8. i just
stopped taking the medication because of this. the scars arent indented,
theyre just severe discoloration of the skin, almost a greyish color. is this
normal of these medications? are these medications any good? will these scars
go away? thank you.
Needling -- Ange, 03:43:13 12/29/02 SunHey Karen...just wondering about your results from your needling session on
the 15th. The more I hear about this, the more excited I become, yet, I cannot
help but be skeptical about getting too excited because I've been disappointed
too many times. If I do the procedure, I will wait until April when I have a
week off from work. Plus, that will give me a few months to read more results
from all of you who have had this done, our "guniuea pigs" so to speak! :-)Hello happy needler! I think I know who you are.... miss ya! :-)
Kelo-cote -- Lisa, 08:13:33 12/28/02 SatHi has anyone ever heard of Kelo-cote gel sheeting, from Cellexc? They say it
helps acne pitting , but I wonder if its just for hypertrophic scars and
keloid scars, like mederma?
Hey Guys...Check this out! -- Acne Control and Treatment, 01:49:12 12/28/02
SatHi....I am new...I have acne also...I just first wanted to share a website I
stumbled across. you can find it at http://www.acne-control-treatment.net. You
have to buy the packet though. I paid 4.99 for it. Though, it is worth the
money. I learned things about acne that I never knew. Check it out, I hope it
helps you guys.
Artecoll -- Dr.Rullan, 22:18:06 12/27/02 FriTED: Artecoll should be available in the spring of 2003. There's a meeting
with the FDA in January...we'll know better then. It has been used and will be
used for acne scars..preferentially on atrophic scars.
For DaveB/Tamara -- CB, 20:32:27 12/27/02 FriDaveB:
Good luck on your needling, I hope your test area yeilds excellent results. It
sounds like I'm in your neck of the woods (Oregon/Washington) and received
same/similar info on needling that you did?I called a couple of cosmetics places and actually liked the lady I spoke with
on the phone, Judy of Permanent Cosmetics NW. She is out of Eugene. At any
rate, I drove down to see her for a consult and inquired about 'whole face' as
well.She said that to do the entire face would be considered a medical procedure
and a doc/plastic surgeon would have to do it? Maybe it's the laws in
Oregon...not sure?At any rate, I'm set for her to do the areas that concern me most on 1-3. I
planned to take a week off afterward, just because of this and I'm burnt on
work. She gave me some topical numbing cream to put on an hour before the
procedure and said that A/D ointment afterwards for a few days would be fine.
I did purchase some copper peptide stuff that Karen/Happy Needler used, just
because I want the best result possible.Any ways, if this portion goes well, I'm very serious about a full face
treatment down in SF where Marc, Kim, H-Needler went in early summer. Hey good
excuse for a road trip :-)Please keep us updated on your treatment.
Tamara...any luck w/Dr. Knize? I did some searching and think this might help
you? His name is Dr David M. Knize from Englewood CO. I imagine that is a
'burb of Denver? A number I saw listed for him was 303-761-9990. I did find an
800 # listed, called it but it was the billing dept?
He definetly is a PS and came at the recommendation of Dr Andre Camirand in
Canada.Good Luck!
CB
Needling Update -- DaveB, 18:32:33 12/27/02 FriThanks to all of you for the input on the needling procedure. I contacted Dawn
in Oregon and she said that this was a procedure that she was not interested
in doing on a regular basis. She also said she would never consider doing a
whole face because that would be considered more of a medical treatment.Romelle, however, a permanent tattoo artist in Redmond, WA, is very interested
in the procedure. (I never did talk to Dr. Glugla, Anna, but thanks.) She did
a test area on me yesterday in a scarred area just below my ear. It bled a bit
at the time but today it looks like it will be healing nicely. Anyway, if all
goes well I will be getting more extensive work done, perhaps the whole face.By the way, to you men who have had this done (Marc, are you still there?),
what did you do about shaving? Obviously, one would want to wait a while
before putting razor to skin on a treated area, but how long? My whiskers grow
pretty fast, and shaving off a week's growth is rough on normal skin, so I
imagine it would be killer on skin that is trying to heal.An aside to Sally. I don't know that there is no cure to acne. I suffered with
it pretty much non-stop for 25 years (with it even getting worse when I
reached 40), but after a series of Accutane treatments I can confidently say
that it is gone. It's been over a year since I have had even the slightest
breakout!
Newbie -- M, 15:57:49 12/27/02 FriNo . . . you can find Needling threads on the following message boards:
absolute acne, Healthboards, clearskin4me, and acne.org.
Peace
M
To Michelle -- Peter, 05:57:35 12/27/02 FriMichelle,
It sounds that your son's scaring might be what is known as ice pick scaring.
Which kinda looks like someone took a chisle, the size of a tooth pick, and
jammed it repetively into his skin causing tiny impressions. They also may
appear as enlarged poors. Does this sound right? If this is true dermabrassion
most likely will not work. I have heard of people who have had dermabrassion
and their scars looked worse. As for microdermabrassion, that really does
nothing except for exfolates the skin. The only thing I could recommend is for
you to put him on RetinA, which helps exfolate the skin, and probably would be
less expensive then the micro derm., and get a few opinions about what would
be the best solution for your son. Talk to derms, plastic surgeon, and see if
there is a scar specialist in your area. Don't lose faith though, I think in
the near future there will be some better solutions for acne scars. I just
hope they come soon enough!!!!!! Fifteen is such a young age to become shut
off from the world. Good luck!!!!!!!
ACNE & ACNE SCARS -- SALLY, 04:52:38 12/27/02 FriAge :16
Gender :FEMALE
Country :UNITED STATESLIKE MANY OF YOU ON THIS SITE, I HAVE ACNE AND ACNE SCARS. I HAVE WASTED GOOD
MONEY ON MURAD, PROACTIVE, AND ETC. MURAD IS A RIP OFF. FIRST OF ALL, IT
MOSTLY CONTAINS SALICYLIC ACID. PEOPLE WHO SAY SALICYLIC ACID IS GOOD FOR YOU,
ARE JUST LYING TO THEMSELVES. I READ A STUDY WHERE IT DOES HELP THE FIRST USE,
BUT IF YOU KEEP USING IT, IT WILL PEEL AWAY YOUR NATURAL OILS ( WHICH IS BAD
CAUSE YOUR SKIN GETS IRRATED AND EXTEMELY DRY.) PLEASE NOTE: DONT USE
PROACITIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
WHY? CAUSE IT MAKES YOU BREAK OUT EVEN MORE CAUSE IT CONTAINS BENZYLE
PEROIXIDE. TRUST ME!!!!!!!!! DONT WASTE YOUR MONEY ON THAT WORTHLESS ITEM.RECENTLY I HAVE BOUGHT ECLINIA CREAM......IT DID MAKE MY SKIN
SMOOTHER.......BUT IF YOU WANT DRAMATIC RESULTS ....YOU SHOULD USE THIS
PRODUCT FOR ABOUT A YEAR.PEOPLE NEED TO REALISE THERE IS NO CURE FOR ACNE! I HATE MY ACNE AND AFTER
READING YOUR STORIES ( WHICH I CAN RELATE TO) IT INFORMS ME. I HAVE NOT DONE
SURGERY BUT I AM CONSIDERING IT.I HAVE SMOOTH SCARS BUT THEY ARE BROWN OR RED. WHAT KIND OF SURGERY SHOULD I
GET?? ( IM STILL A MINOR)
Are NEEDLING and SUBCISION the same? -- NEWBIE, 03:28:26 12/27/02 FriAre these procedures the same thing? What are they actually? How much do they
run for? Does anyone know someon in California who does this? I know these are
a lot of questions, but any info. will be appreciated it. Thanks!NEWBIE
tiffany: acne, etc. -- andy, 00:57:31 12/27/02 Fritiffany,
i am sorry you are suffering with an acne problem. A lot of people say that
proactiv doesn't work, but it worked pretty well for me. I think a lot of the
prescription stuff was too harsh for my skin. I think I noticed fewer
breakouts with proactive in about two weeks. If that doesn't work, you might
want to try going to a dermatologist. If you have health insurance, visits and
medications are usually covered, so you may want to try that.As for blotchy skin, if there is no actual physical indentation, the
discoloration will usually go away after some time. you can try to speed this
up with some exfoliation. I've read in various boards (such as the one at
acne.org) that people have had good results using scotch tape, which would be
very inexpensive. (you just take a piece of scotch tape and stick it on your
face and peel it off, taking off dead skin with it and pulling the skin
upwards). Perhaps you can try this for a month or something. Deeper scars are
harder to deal with and that's why we're all here...good luck. and ask questions, we're all here to help.
My Acne and Scars -- Tiffany, 23:01:41 12/26/02 ThuHi, I'm new to the site and mesage board! I have acne (I'm still a teen) and
have had it since I was about 12 (since 6th grade). I never really listened to
my mom who said "Tuff(my nickname),don't pick at your pimples, you'll get
scars." Well, me being a little slow to noticed that after I of scratched one
it formed a scab to heal, I kept scratching like a heroin addict. And now
since I stopped scratching after my friends starting making fun of me (just
one actually, but she doesn't do it anymore because I told her it hurts my
feelings). Anyway my point is I now have quite a few deep scars on my
fore-head which has caused what looks like creases on my fore-head, making me
look about 25 instead of 16. And then I have these slightly brown patches on
my chin, cheeks and in between my eyes, that make my skin look really dull and
darker than it is.
I saw this Guthy-Renker infomercial about Proactiv and didn't like the idea of
ordering a 2-month kit for $40.00, so I went to their website and had my dad
buy a mini-kit with no subscription, and I should get it in about 2-weeks. So
I would like to know if anyone's tried that and it's worked for them...
And as for my patchy skin I saw another Guthy-Renker infomercial for this
'Youthful Essence', which is said to be a safe micro-dermabrasion, and this
thing is supposed to be a sort of skin buffer that fluffs the dead skin cells
of making your complexion more smooth and even toned. I saw the infomercial
quite a few times while I was getting ready for school... and I was wondering
if anyone had tried that too, it's indorsed by Susan Lucci if your
wondering...and Proactiv is endorsed by Judith Light and Venessa Williams.
I want to try both of them but I'm not sure if my dad would pay for something
that might not work...
Sorry this was a long post...
Lisa and Miss -- Denise1, 16:24:45 12/26/02 ThuLisa; the answers appear on top of the questions. As you scroll down, you see
the answer, then the question. It's simple. All you do is see who a post is
addressed to and that post is directed towards a particular person with a
particular question, usually. If you'll note the dates and times of posts,
it's simple.My recommendation to both you and Miss is to scroll down and read the various
posts regarding various procedures. Many people are opting for subcision and
needling. Please read further down for information on those procedures. It's
hard to advise anyone what to do about their scars when we don't know what
kind of scars you have. Different procedures work for different scars. Again,
please scroll down and read what various people say regarding needling and
subcision.Hope that helps.
Hope all of you are having a good holiday season.
acne scars -- miss, 08:50:56 12/26/02 ThuHeLp!!! i wanna how u can cure scars and acne quickly and lasting
artecoll -- Ted, 06:07:12 12/26/02 ThuDoes anyone know if collegen injections really work or have any effects on
acne scars?
speaking of injections has anyone had any Artecoll injections done on them?Any
good results?Does anyone know when in 2003 it will be approved?
Acne Scars and How to use this message board? -- Lisa, 05:23:35 12/26/02 ThuHi I am new to this site, I see peoples questions, but dont see any of the
answers to them, how do you see the follow up posts? Also I have acne scars on
my face, and I think Im very ugly because of them, Im very depressed over
them, I already tried, Dermabrasion, and Laser, and they didnt improve one
bit, which depresses me and angers me more, That doctor must have been a quack
(why me?) Anyways, I want to do something, but not major surgery again,
something cheaper with long lasting results , thanks. Lisa