Acne Scar Treatments Archive 3
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  Mr. G -- Charlotte, 05:49:02 10/10/03 Fri

  Beth,
  Back in March, I was thinking about getting a second subcision and emailed Mr.
  G to see how he felt about his second one. He said his skin still wasn't
  perfect, but he was happy with the results from his second subcision. He said
  that close up he still had shallow scars and thought about getting fat
  injections. But when he backed away from the mirror a little bit, the scars
  really weren’t a big deal like they once were. The shallow ones that remained
  really weren't that bad.

  Then I e-mailed him in the summer to tell him that I had needling in July
  instead of a second subcision. I don't think he had heard of it. He seemed
  interested in needling since it is similar in concept to subcision. I told him
  I'd keep him posted with my progress, but I haven't yet. I wanted to send a
  link with photos when I contacted him again and I haven't pulled it together
  yet. I think he said he was not pursuing the idea of fat injections anymore.

  I had a second needling just today, and I've started on a series of Smoothbeam
  laser treatments.

  Anyway, I think Mr. G is happy enough with his improvement that he doesn't
  hang out with us anymore :(
 

  Super CP -- Robert, 23:08:20 10/09/03 Thu

  Thank you, everyone, for the comments. I forgot to mention that, in addition
  to the CP Serum, I'm also using a 15% glycolic acid cream twice a week. I
  can't use it daily 'cause it burned me slightly a couple of times and so I
  have to be careful with it. I'd like to try a 30% peel but seem to be very
  sensitive to glycolic acid. The 15% cream has been exfoliating me well,
  though, and has really cleared my skin of red marks. My scars are mostly
  shallow or medium in depth, so I'm hopeful I'll see some improvement with the
  topicals alone. I've been using them 8 weeks, and am waiting for the Super CP
  and Super COP to arrive in the mail.
 

   Everyone, about Super Serum -- Denise1, 19:31:03 10/09/03 Thu

  Hi everybody. I told Maya the other day I was gonna write to Dr. Pickert at
  Skin Biology to see if he could formulate a Super Serum version that was
  salicylic acid free. I will get back with everyone and let you all know what
  he says.

  I also wanted to remind everyone too that there are many things that slow
  collagen production down. Smoking for one does, ofcourse, and so does the use
  of SSRI antidepressants (Prozac, Paxil). There are ofcourse many variables
  that go into how people respond to different products, but some of you may not
  be aware that things that are used to stimulate collagen may or may not do
  much if you smoke or are on an SSRI.

  I am fortunate, I am very fair: Irish/German/Scotch/English/Native American.
  My mother and her siblings were dark, but I seem to have inherited my father's
  skin tone. I just have very tough skin that tolerates a lot of peels and
  whatnot with no trouble at all. I use Retin A micro .10% and do peels with no
  problem. I have had a TCA with no problem. All of these things stimulate
  collagen production, Retin A by UP TO 80%.

  As Steve said, the Super Serum works excellent with peels. I'm not sure what
  it does by itself as I've always used it with Retin A and peels. I don't
  smoke, am not on an SSRI, and take many supplements that help with the skin.

  While all of us are different, I think that there are many thing we can do to
  help us get the best results from various topicals.

  So anyway....that's my buck fifty on the serum. I truly hope that Dr. Pickert
  comes up with a salicylic acid free formula. It truly has worked like a charm
  for me, ofcourse, along with the Retin A, which is almost like getting
  microderm everynight.
 

  Anyone know how Mr. G is doing? -- Beth, 15:54:22 10/09/03 Thu

  I have not seen any posts from Mr. G in the longest time. Has anyone been in
  touch with him or know how his subcission results are holding up? Thanks! Beth
 

  Thanks, sam-e! -- Beth, 15:50:27 10/09/03 Thu

  I'll do that! I hope to have a good report for you after trying needling.

  For everyone-- I may post some pictures so you can all help me to determine
  the level of scarring and the best treatment for my situation. I have a
  digital camera, but the close range pictures are a bit too blurry. I'm going
  to invest in a better camera soon so you all can compare before and after
  pictures of my needling.

  Thanks again for your concern.

  Beth :-)
 

  Maya/Steve/CP and Super CP -- John, 13:49:12 10/09/03 Thu

  Maya...it sounds like I'm in the same court as you when it comes to Dr.
  Pickart's Super CP Serum. It just hasn't done anything positive for
  me...although I am glad to hear that it IS helping others. I am of
  Irish/Italian descent with light Olive skin, so the Asian factor you described
  doesn't apply to me. I guess it's just one of those things...

  Steve...can you please tell me where I can purchase the Lactic Acid Peel? Is
  there much downtime after using it? I hesitate using a Glycolic Acid Peel.
  Glycolic historically breaks me out and causes A LOT of redness and itching.
  But I would like to try the Lactic Acid Peel, to see if using it will help the
  CP Serum work better for me.

  Thanks very much and continued good health & success to both of you,
  John
 

  Super Copper Peptides -- Maya, 10:14:36 10/09/03 Thu

  I know Denise and others have had great success with Super CP from skinbiology
  - but this is my negative experience:

  I used the regular CP for a few months, found it soothing after peels and it
  had a skin softening effect, I then moved up to Super CP, which I found quite
  staining and I can't say it helped fill in any pits.

  What I did find was that it was starting to cause inflammation under my scars,
  causing them to slightly raise and become lumpy (felt like zits under the
  scars) - I continued to use the super CP for maybe 2 months.

  I had some scars excised 5 weeks ago and I applied the Super CP, then Emu oil
  ... but I was finding that each excised scar was becomeing inflamed .. last
  week, I stopped using the super CP and withinn 2 days, the inflammation
  dissapeared and my scars have continued to improve since.

  I spoke with Dr Chu yesterday (when I had more excision performend) and he
  told me that a few of his patients had had similar experiences with Super CP
  and SuperCop - that it can cause inflamation and makes his scar revision
  methods less effective).

  I have conversed with Denise about this and she had recently found that some
  Asian type skins can have adverse effects with glycolic (I do) and with
  salyctites (spelling?) as founn in the super CP - so I am staying away
  although the standard CP was fine or me.
 

   Beth -- Sam-e, 07:06:06 10/09/03 Thu

  Hi Beth I was hoping to hear that you were 100% now since I had not read any
  posts from you in a while. I dont have glycolic damage, just laser damage.
  Anyway I was just wondering how you were doing because I know you were in such
  distress before, I do hope you find the answer soon. Keep us posted as I will
  continue to wonder.
 

  John -- Steve, 02:30:14 10/09/03 Thu

  You probably need to use the Super CP serums in conjunction with AHA peels..
  Even Dr. Pickart from SkinBio has stated this.. I would recommend you purchase
  a 30% Glycolic or maybe a latic acid peel to use with your Serums..
 

  CP/Super CP Serum -- John, 01:58:40 10/09/03 Thu

  Hi Robert,
  I'm not Denise but I've been using the Super CP serum for several months now.
  I started out with just the regular CP Serum and then in a couple weeks I
  upgraded to Super CP, which I use in conjunction with the Exfol Serum. I'm
  sticking with it but I must be honest with you and say that I haven't really
  noticed that much of a difference. My skin FEELS a little bit better, but
  there has been no reduction of scars whatsoever.(And no "healthy glow",
  either!) In fact, that is the very reason why I have just made an appointment
  with a Dr. Rapaport in Englewood Cliffs, NJ, to discuss doing subcision or
  using a cool laser on my face to eradicate my scars. The CP Serums seem to me
  to be little more than fancy moisturizers with some mild exfoliating
  properties, and that's all. I don't believe they are potent enough to erase
  scars on their own. I guess I'll keep using them for a while, but then again,
  I have to ask myself.....why?? I guess they're helping some people, though,
  and I hope you'll have a better experience with them than I've had.
 

  Question For Denise -- Robert, 23:55:12 10/08/03 Wed

  Denise, are you the person who has been using Super CP Serum? If so, how often
  do you apply it? And have you seen visible improvements? I'm about to
  "upgrade" from CP Serum to Super CP.
 

  To: Sam-e --- Re: Glycolic Acid Damage -- Beth, 15:15:02 10/08/03 Wed

  I think you are referring to me. Do you have some glycolic acid damage too?

  To answer your question...No. I have not found the solution yet, but I am
  leaning towards needling.

  I have to say that my cheeks are much better in that they are starting to look
  more normal and can handle Aveeno soap very well. My chin area is still a
  mess, however, and more sensitive to products than the rest of my face.

  The only area I had a corrective treatment done on was my forehead. I had one
  microderm treatment done on my forehead about 2.5 years ago and I DO think
  that treatment helped a bit. At first I thought it made my skin look worse for
  about a year or so afterwards, but now I can see that my uneven texture has
  smoothed out and my forehead is more tolerent than the rest of my face when it
  comes to skin care products. Somehow I think the microderm thickened my skin
  back up in that area.

  Even though I eventually had a good result with microderm, I am hesitant to
  have this treatment done on the rest of my face as it was quite harsh and the
  rest of my face is much more fragile than my forehead. For this reason I am
  leaning toward needling -- unless someone on one of these message boards
  advises otherwise.

  I am thinking of having this needling treatment done soon, so I'll keep you
  all posted.

  Beth
 

  Message to girl whos skin was ruined by glycolic acid -- sam-e, 04:22:17
  10/08/03 Wed

  Did you ever find your solution? How is your skin these days? I hope that you
  are better.
 

  Message to PK -- HT, 09:53:49 10/07/03 Tue

  Hi PK
  Im a newbie on this board and reading your recent posts about you trip to
  australia has given me hope. I am planning to see Dr Schieber but just
  wondering about downtime for this treatment, I know its not like evasive laser
  treatment but are you still red from the treatment, what does your skin look
  like after the treatment? when did the redness subside?
  Hope you can help me.
  Thanks again for your detailed reports, they are much appreciated!
 

   Robert and Larry -- Denise1, 16:48:41 10/06/03 Mon

  Robert I tend to agree with you.

  Larry, you always want to start with lower amounts of glycolic acid. Glycolic
  tends to be the harshest of the AHA's. It's best to start with lower amounts
  and work your way up.

  Keep in mind that over time, your skin does become immune to glycolic acid,
  and you will actually be forced to work up to higher amounts. At some point,
  you ought to go to salicylic or lactic acids.
 

  70% Glycolic acid peel -- Robert, 19:31:21 10/05/03 Sun

  I wouldn't let ANYONE do a 70% peel on me. Order some 15% glycolic acid cream
  or a 30% peel online. 30% works just as well as 70%; it just takes longer. And
  yes, you can be burned! Err on the side of caution, and be patient. I'm using
  a 15% cream with CP Serum and am seeing decent results. I know it will take
  many more months to see significant changes, but I also know I won't be burned
  or scarred in the process.
 

  What's the worst that could happen? -- Larry, 14:22:50 10/05/03 Sun

  I would like to know what's the worst thing that could happen to someone like
  me that has never used any peel higher than 10% glycolic, suddenly applying
  the 70% glycolic peel? I would apply a lower one but since where i'm living
  there isn't any other lower peel.. Is there any serious danger? could I
  actually get seriously burnt or get a bad reaction? what if I told the doctor
  to apply it for less than 2 minutes? and how long until the redness fades?

  And did anyone ever try the product Bio-Oil? It's quite good but I would like
  to know about anyone who has tried it?

  Ok, thanks a whole lot.
 

  PK First Full Report after treatment by Dr. Scheibner -- PK, 07:21:53 10/05/03
  Sun

  Dear Friends,

  First, thank you everyone for your prayers and support. The past 2 months have
  been a real roller coaster, as I daily saw the worsening condition of my skin
  following a botched laser job, and ultimately sought treatment from Dr.
  Adrianna Scheibner, herself, in Australia.

  Let me try to answer the most urgent questions first, with what time I have
  now to jot down some notes:

  First, I was treated 3 separate times by Dr. Scheibner during my week-long
  visit to Sydney. Dr. S. uses as CO2 laser, which she has “tweaked” or adjusted
  differently than other laser practitioners would, to be able to very gently
  laser the skin and stimulate each cell to begin healing again. It does NOT
  remove any skin, NO destruction of the epidermis. All the work is done at the
  cellular level at the dermis/epidermis juncture where the perfect blueprint
  exists for the re-healing of each cell.

  No anesthesia was needed. I could feel the laser, it felt like a slight
  burning sensation, but nothing that I couldn’t handle . Each session lasted
  about 30- 60 minutes. Very carefully, Dr. S. went over every inch of my face,
  seeing as there was scarring over its entire surface, gently stimulating the
  damaged cells to trigger the rehealing process.

  I am a bit hesitant to report fully yet as to my degree of healing thus far.
  Immediately upon my return, 2 days ago, my nose (the most scarred area)
  appeared to be some 40% healed, and the rest of my face filling in as well. I
  now realize that part of these perceived results were the result of my nose
  having been swollen slightly, and now that it’s subsided, I can see more of
  the original scars reappearing. However, there is definitely improvement from
  prior to my treatments, and the rest of my face continues to look better than
  before, as well.

  I am praying that the skin will continue healing or filling in these indented
  scars, and will report back regularly as things progress. What this DOES tell
  me is that Dr. S’s technique DOES absolutely work, in that I have already
  witnessed skin growth, however, it would likely take several more treatments
  to more fully reverse these scars.

  Dr. Scheibner and her family were saints to take me in and help me as they
  have. I am forever indebted to them, and we have agreed to keep in touch and I
  will be working here to further her efforts to return to the states.

  Thank you all, again, and please keep me in your prayers, as I will also be
  praying for each of you, that we can together find a FINAL cure to these
  blasted scars!!

  PK

  Anna -- John, 01:02:30 10/05/03 Sun

  That sounds like good advice, Anna. Thanks very much.
  P.S. Please give PK my best. I hope she's doing all right. We'll all be happy
  to hear her next report.
  Take care.
  John
 

  Accutane and Surgery -- Anna, 00:49:48 10/05/03 Sun

  John,

  If I were you I would call Dr. Rapaport before your appointment and ask him or
  his staff whether they think it is still too soon for you to start treatment
  after being on Accutane.

  Good Luck!
  Anna

  To: PK -- What treatment did you have? -- Beth, 00:33:09 10/05/03 Sun

  I've been away for quite some time and think I may have missed reading what
  kind of "gentle" treatments you were getting. Please fill me in. It sounds
  wonderful. Thanks! Beth:-)
 

  Dr. Rapaport/Subcision/Accutane -- John, 14:59:22 10/04/03 Sat

  I have an appointment on October 13th with NJ dermatologist, Dr. Jeffrey
  Rapaport, who is supposed to be an expert in subcutaneous subcision and laser
  resurfacing and I was wondering if anyone here can give me some guidance on a
  question I have. I was on a dose of 80 mg. a day of Accutane for several
  months in 2002 and 2003 and when I had Zyplast Collagen injections in February
  2003, it left my scars far worse than they were before. I now know (too late)
  that the Accutane likely impeded my ability to heal and that's why the last
  round of Zyplast injections CAUSED more scars, rather than CORRECTED the ones
  that I previously had.

  My question is: if Dr. Rapaport thinks he can help me a protocol of subcision
  and lasering, is it still too soon after the end of my treatment with
  Accutane, to consider having these procedures done? (I stopped taking the
  medication in April of this year.) I went to different dermatologists for both
  treatments--the Accutane and the Zyplast--so I have no one to blame but myself
  for not telling the Zyplast doctor that I was on Accutane. However, I wasn't
  being deceptive...I honestly had no idea at the time that Accutane caused
  scarring, or that it made past scarring, worse.

  I hope someone here can give me some advice on this, and to those out there on
  Accutane, please take this as a warning not to have any surgical or invasive
  treatment done on your face while you are taking that drug. If I had only
  known......
 

   WHITE SPOTS -- Victor, 23:59:01 10/03/03 Fri

  Hey guys,

  I had some CO2 laser treatments about eight years ago and although I think
  they helped, We probably all go into a semi-dark room and play with the
  shadows to see how bad or good we look.
  I am left with white skin where the laser was applied. Are there any others
  out there who have had this happen with that laser? Has anyone done anything
  about it?
  I am working with Novitel gel (not sure on the spelling) for the
  hypopigmentation.

  Vic,
  anything would be appreiciated
 

 

  Eric And Vs -- Steve, 22:17:07 10/03/03 Fri

  Eric.. THe healing process since my touchup has been pretty slow..Its been a
  little over 2 weeks and my scars are still very redish..Which i feel is a
  positive sign, because it means Dr. Rullan really got under the scar tissue
  and burned them well.. And yeah ive been using Regular CP Serum and EMU oil
  twice a day for healing..

  Hopefully ill see good results within the next month.. But im also doing alot
  of experimenting with various topicals and peel the acne.org people are
  using.. Like the Alpha lipoic home cream, mandalic acid, and even got my hands
  on 50% TCA peel.. So the next couple of months should be interesting..

  VS, Sure we can meet up...Email and ill give you me number.. as of right now
  my schedule is free, ive been trying to get a job recently so i may end up
  being a bit busy.. But im sure we can find time to meet up..
 

 

  Steve...PK...Dr.Rullan -- VS, 23:26:07 10/02/03 Thu

  Well I made an apt to see Dr. Rullan. My apt with him is on the 7th. I'm
  driving down to the LA area this weekend.
  Steve Can we meet while i'm down there?

  PK i'm so happy for you. Can you describe what exactly she does. what laser
  she uses? i'm confused on her whole process. Does she just set the laser to
  really low setting and abrade the skin or what?

  :)
 

 

   PK & Steve -- Eric, 20:31:03 10/02/03 Thu

  PK-

  That is awesome news! I am very pleased to hear such miraculous stories of
  recovery, not only on your part, but also on the part of the former patients.
  The Lord is good! I e-mailed Dr. Scheibner a few weeks ago requesting to be
  added to the list of petitions, I believe it was, to have a clinic opened in
  California again, as well as to get a brochure from her. It seems that she
  truly wants to bring her methods back to USA to help as many people as she
  possibly can recover from the ravages of scarring. I look forward to what the
  future will bring!!

  Hey Steve-
  Just wanted to ask how you are doing after your Exoderm touch-ups! Is your
  skin healing OK, and are you using CP Serum to help? Any new improvement yet?
  Sorry to bug you, but I am hopeful and enthusiastic for your continued
  progress!

  Peace out y'all...

  -Eric
 

 

   PK -- Denise1, 15:33:23 10/02/03 Thu

  Pk: That is truly wonderful news. I'm so impressed with the Dr. To think that
  she put you up, let you use her frequent flier miles, etc....and now you can
  already see such good results. This is truly incredible. I truly hope and pray
  that you will continue to heal and continue to testify to the goodness of the
  woman who unselfishly helps others.

  Thanks for the update, and happy healing!!!!
 

 

  PK -- John, 14:54:22 10/02/03 Thu

  That is great news, PK! Like everyone else here, I can't wait to hear more. I
  have the feeling that your treatments with Dr. Scheibner will be the catalyst
  for many life-altering miracles--not only for you, but somehow, for the rest
  of us, too.
  I hope that each day finds you more and more pleased with the results of Dr.
  Scheibner's work. I am elated for you and will keep sending lots of good
  thoughts your way.
  John
 

 

  PK - Scheibner -- Sweety, 12:50:16 10/02/03 Thu

  PK, thats wonderful news!!
 

 

  PK -- Maya, 09:59:39 10/02/03 Thu

  Wow, your good news is exactly what we all needed to hear right now!!!!!! So
  many have followed your anguish and now there really seems to be so much hope
  again. I believe in miracles :-) :-) :-)

  Please could you post more details about the full procedure. Are you saying
  that you had 3 lots of CO2 laser performed on you at low setting?

  Thanks so much for your update even though you were tired, and I wish you
  continued success!
 

 

  VS -- Steve, 04:22:27 10/02/03 Thu

  I believe the URL to Dr.rullans site is http://www.drrullan.com/

 

  You can get all the info you need from there..
 

 

  PK Your an Inspiration -- John, 02:01:02 10/02/03 Thu

  Hi PK,

  I am so pleased for you and thanks for your posts.

  As I live in Australia, I had better make the most of it while she is actually
  here.

  For all others in this country we had better make the most of this wonderful
  technique.
 

 

  PK initial reporting in after visit to Scheibner Center .... -- PK, 01:51:54
  10/02/03 Thu

  Thank you, Anna, for covering for me earlier. Still very tired, back to sleep
  in a moment, but wanted to first post this.

  I AM NOW CONVINCED BEYOND ANY DOUBT THAT DR. SCHEIBNER IS THE "REAL THING" AND
  THAT SHE HAS DEVELOPED A METHOD WHEREBY SCARS CAN BE REVERSESD COMPLETELY, OR
  NEAR COMPLETELY, DEPENDING UPON HOW MANY TREATMENTS GIVEN!

  My trip to Sydney and visit for a week with S. Family was nothing short of
  miraculous. I saw with my own eyes patient photos wherein scarring far worse
  than mine was eradicated entirely. I met a half dozen former patients whose
  skin looks completely normal - in fact every one of her staff members is a
  former patient who was so changed by the experience of being made whole, that
  they entered her employ. Pretty outstanding testimony.

  MY OWN SKIN is looking far improved - after three gentle treatments, thus far
  it appears that to be a maybe 30-40 % improvement - depressed scars actually
  filling in and the skin healing after having been "permanently" scarred by
  laser resurfacing.

  Given that teh whole world maintains that scarring is permanent, what I see
  occuring on my face is such a miracle, and Dr. S. is determined to bring this
  technology to the US to help others like me. I, along with "Anna" plan to be
  helping her. By the way, I informed her of Marcsheeps' death, and she was
  devastated. Had only he waited but a short week to hear this news. I am so sad
  about this....

  But please everyone, keep the faith, God is at work here and I am delighted
  beyond my wildest dreams to provide all os us good news.

  I promise, more later. Sweetie and others, I DID ask your specific questions.
  NO type of scarring is beyond help, and there is absouteuly no "recovery time"
  as she does not remove any tissue. She is a miracle.

  THank you all for your prayers, more later...

  PK
 

 

  PK -- John, 22:53:14 10/01/03 Wed

  Thanks for letting us know that PK got home safely, Anna, and that Dr.
  Scheibner was able to help her. That is terrific news! I am looking forward to
  hearing all about PK's experiences with Dr. Scheibner, when she posts her
  update. I really feel the need to hear something positive these days. I must
  admit that MarcSheep's passing did a real number on me and I have been very,
  very down since I first heard about it. I am probably too sensitive for my own
  good and I hate to hear of ANYONE being in ANY kind of pain. And of course,
  Marc was suffering the ultimate pain, which, I guess, is a total loss of hope.
  He is in my thoughts a lot.
  It will be encouraging, I think, for all of us, to hear PK's report as I'm
  sure she is feeling much better by now.
  Anna, I send you, and PK, and everyone here, my best.
  John
 

 

  Dr. Scheibner -- Anna, 21:01:55 10/01/03 Wed

  PK is back!

  She is very tired, but she called to tell me that in the week she was staying
  with Dr. Scheibner she was treated three times. Each treatment lasted from 30
  - 40 minutes, no anesthesia or numbing cream. Dr. Scheibner herself performed
  the treatment which involves a CO2 laser at a very low setting. She says that
  she can't believe it, but she sees about 40% improvement and Dr. Scheibner
  says that she should continue to see improvement over the next two months. PK
  will post more later...
 

 

   LT, Larry, and Greg -- Denise1, 15:22:43 10/01/03 Wed

  Greg: I sent you an e-mail! Hope you got it.

  LT: Please don't blame yourself. That's the last thing you should do. Please
  don't do it. Marc is the only one responsible for doing what he did. Think
  about it....!!!

  Larry: 70% sounds incredibly high if you are only at 10%. You can always try a
  30% peel, or a 50% lactic acid peel and spot treat your minor scars with Super
  CP Serum, which will help over time. This isn't a one-time thing where your
  scars disappear in one application. It's a procedure that shows good results
  over time. You can try it, but keep in mind to be patient. Retin A micro .10%
  is very good for helping with scarring too, if your skin can handle it.

  Try: www.homepeels.com
 

 

  LT -- Maya, 09:27:34 10/01/03 Wed

  It wasn't your fault in any way. Marc was already depressed although he hid it
  pretty well when he posted. I had many private 'chats' with him. In fact, it's
  better when people post if they are feeling down, it allows others to support
  them. After all, most of us are in the same boat, and being able to give and
  receive within this community is important.

  Please don't let this stop anyone from posting if they need emotional support.
  Don't go through it alone. There are so many here who are willing to help.

  Maya
 

 

  please help with skin tattoo -- Tina, 21:23:01 09/30/03 Tue

  I have been a listener for a while on this site. This is my first time
  posting. I need help. When will I see the results of my skin tattoo. I am 6
  weeks post procedure and scars look the same. I am anxious to see results, but
  when?
 

 

  Insurance -- Anna, 20:39:20 09/30/03 Tue

  John,
  My insurance company does cover treatment of acne as a medical condition. It
  does not cover acne scar treatment though. I think this is because the
  efficacy of these treatments remains unproven. I believe if a sure fire
  treatment existed insurance funds would become available. I truly think that
  with the advances in the study of growth factors and other biological
  processes we are on the verge of having reliable scar repair available to us.
  Many doctors become arrogant and hostile when they encounter a condition they
  can't address and don't understand. Anyway, that is just my view.
  My best,
  Anna
 

 

  Elaine -- Marcos, 06:28:02 09/30/03 Tue

  Sorry Elaine, but I´m not in the United States.
  You could try to look for Olcadil using "SANDOZ" (its manufacturer) or
  "CLOXAZOLAM" (scientific name). I took it about 9 years ago for some weeks and
  quit when I felt I didn´t need it anymore, since it´s a very heavy drug!
 

 

   70% Glycolic Peel -- Larry, 05:45:35 09/30/03 Tue

  About a year ago a few months after my break-out (had just left Roaccutan) my
  doctor told me he could apply a 70% glycolic peel on my face for 3 minutes and
  then remove it. I've been using a 10% glycolic peel and retin-A mostly for the
  past year.

  I have some mild acne scars which I want to take care of before passing to the
  deeper problems.
  I was wondering if this is a good idea? I've never used a glycolic peel higher
  than 10% in my life. But the doctor doesnt have any lower ones.. I was pretty
  shocked when he suggested it.. But I want to give it a try, should I go for
it?

  Thanks. I'm really Sorry about Marc.
 

 

  70% Glycolic Peel!!?? -- Larry, 05:41:48 09/30/03 Tue

  About a year ago a few months after my break-out (had just left Roaccutan) my
  doctor told me he could apply a 70% glycolic peel on my face for 3 minutes and
  then remove it. I've been using a 10% glycolic peel and retin-A mostly for the
  past year.

  I have some mild acne scars which I want to take care of before passing to the
  deeper problems.
  I was wondering if this is a good idea? I've never used a glycolic peel higher
  than 10% in my life. But the doctor doesnt have any lower ones.. I was pretty
  shocked when he suggested it.. But I want to give it a try, should I go for
it?

  Thanks. I'm really Sorry about Marc.
 

 

  Steve Dr Rullan -- vs, 02:15:57 09/30/03 Tue

  Hey steve, or anyone else, whats dr rullans email
  I'm going to be in southern california soon, and I wanna have a consult with
  dr. rullan. He is in southern cali right?
 

 

  LT -- John, 18:57:03 09/29/03 Mon

  LT, don't do that to yourself. I think A LOT of us have felt that way (about
  wanting to commit suicide), from time to time. To be honest, the thought
  crosses MY mind--albeit, fleetingly--EVERY DAY. I am very angry right
  now...NOT at MarcSheep. On the contrary, I feel nothing but sorrow that he
  felt so desolate and alone, he couldn't see past the pain of his acne scars. I
  am angry at the medical insurance communities that not only refuse to
  acknowledge acne as a medical--rather than a COSMETIC--disease, but also
  minimize the far-reaching negative effects of having facial scars. I can say,
  without equivocation, that my scars were the direct cause of my having
  developed a severe Social Anxiety Disorder over the years, that has only grown
  worse over time. I am CERTAIN I would not have this disorder if I didn't have
  these damn scars! The devastation of a person's spirit is an EXTREMELY SERIOUS
  consequence of having acne scars....WHY CAN'T (AND WHEN WILL) SOCIETY AS A
  WHOLE--AND THE MEDICAL AND INSURANCE COMMUNITIES, IN PARTICULAR--recognize
  this?? Yes, having these scars may have made me a more compassionate, kind and
  empathetic person, but you know what? I would trade in ALL those qualities to
  have a clear, scar-free complexion. If that doesn't sufficiently explain how
  physically and emotionally ravaged I feel by this problem, I don't know what
  else I could say, that WOULD...
  God bless MarcSheep and all of us here. Kindred spirits, we are, and believe
  me, if I could take every last one of our scars away, as God as my witness, I
  WOULD.
 

 

  Marc -- LT, 16:38:38 09/29/03 Mon

  I came here a month ago, and posted about wanting to die. I come back today
  and read that Marc, who replied to my post, has killed himself. I feel that my
  post, talking of not wanting to live with acne scars, might have pushed him in
  that direction.
 

 

  Olcadil, acne scarring -- Elaine, 07:44:11 09/29/03 Mon

  Hello. Actually, I don't have any idea what this page is about. I was looking
  up "olcadil" to see if I could buy it in the United States, as I am almost out
  and can't go back to Brazil and get more. I saw that "Marcos" mentioned it and
  wondered if he got it here. Just as a coincidence, I have acne scars too. I've
  just started using Elicina, a cream that over time is supposed to really help
  acne scarring (I don't have money for surgical treatments). Anyway, I've liked
  Elicina so far. It does seem to at least smooth out the skin. Maybe Marcos
  could leave a note about the olcadil? I don't have a prescription, although I
  could get one, as I have a legitimate reason. Still, it is much more
  convenient when you don't need one. In Brazil, I never needed a prescription.
  Good luck to everyone here. Elaine
 

 

  DENISE1...you are famous:-) -- greg, 03:47:26 09/29/03 Mon

  hi denise,
  Mimi is flying up to D.C. from Florida to get needled by Lilian and she wants
  to meet you as you were the pioneer of needling- she nor I have your email
  address so am posting here...

  My support group is having a needling "live demo" this Saturday 10/4 at 1pm at
  Lilian's place- mimi & I are gonna both get needled as my group watches...

  she wants to see your face:-)

  I know it's a long drive from Richmond but Mimi's coming all the way from
  Florida:-)

  Hope you can make it!
  Greg
 

 

  Marc's death...saddened but not surprised -- greg, 03:35:14 09/29/03 Mon

  I am very sorry to hear about Marc's passing- but i am not surprised- i am
  actually amazed there are not *more* suicides from this scarring mess...this
  is a topic that is hardly ever discussed..but i would venture to say that
  suicide has crossed most if not all of our minds..sorry to say this but i feel
  it's the truth...

  what angers me is that this was a fixable situation-if he could've just gotten
  over the shame part...yes-back scarring is harder to fix than facial
  scarring(not sure why but it is) but this coulda been fixed...the horizon is
  neon-bright for us...within a few years we'll have new sheets of new skin
  grown from stem cells-scars will be 100% fixable soon...

  I'm sure Marc's life was *extended* by this message board- it gave him hope &
  comfort- a place to land , but scarring is still sometimes just too much to
  bear for a young person...

  Greg
 

 

   Clarification about Marcsheep -- Denise1, 20:54:25 09/28/03 Sun

  Marc was more severely depressed about his back than anything. His acne scars
  only seemed to exacerbate his feelings to feeling out of place. His back was
  badly scarred due to a botched surgery, not acne.

  I think that in his last conversaton with Maya, he said that needling had
  helped him in his facial scars. He was thinking about getting needling done on
  his back, but was very ashamed of anyone seeing it.

  I hope this helps everyone understand what was going on with Marc. It's very
  tragic and sad. I only wish I had known everything that was going on with him,
  like so many of us.

  Hope this clarifies things a bit.
 

 

   About Marc -- Marcos, 06:21:40 09/26/03 Fri

  I have never posted here because of my poor English, but it´s very hard to
  know that one more person from this board gave up living because of acne
  scaring. I feel like trying to help.
  I have also considered suicide many times in the past. I couldn´t stand that
  intense endless pain 24 hours a day. Today, many years later, the reasons for
  the despair I used to feel seem so insignificant (scars one of them) but I
  know the situation. When we feel desperate, we can´t see the reality, so
  rational thoughts (such as thinking about people that have worse problems)
  don´t usually help - we are out of the "normal" world. Everything becames
  emotional.
  Fortunatelly, if science haven´t found a cure for scars, it has provided many
  treatments for depression, including great drugs. I used a medicine called
  Olcadil that was amazing, and today I have read there are others even better.
  I´m sad for knowing Marc died when I know (from personal experience) that a
  good psychiatrist could have saved him.

  Time is also a good remedy. After some years, acne scars are no longer an
  obsession, just an annoyance that don´t occupy the mind all the time and don´t
  torture us anymore.
 

 

   About Marc -- Marcos, 06:19:18 09/26/03 Fri

  I have never posted here because of my poor English, but it´s very hard to
  know that one more person from this board gave up living because of acne
  scaring. I feel like trying to help.
  I have also considered suicide many times in the past. I couldn´t stand that
  intense endless pain 24 hours a day. Today, many years later, the reasons for
  the despair I used to feel seem so insignificant (scars one of them) but I
  know the situation. When we feel desperate, we can´t see the reality, so
  rational thoughts (such as thinking about people that have worse problems)
  don´t usually help - we are out of the "normal" world. Everything becames
  emotional.
  Fortunatelly, if science haven´t found a cure for scars, it has provided many
  treatments for depression, including great drugs. I used a medicine called
  Olcadil that was amazing, and today I have read there are others even better.
  I´m sad for knowing Marc died when I know (from personal experience) that a
  good psychiatrist could have saved him.

  Time is also a good remedy. After some years, acne scars are no longer an
  obsession, just an annoyance that don´t occupy the mind all the time and don´t
  torture us anymore.
 

 

  My doctor search -- elizabeth rohan, 06:22:15 09/25/03 Thu

  It's my 45th birthday and 3 years since I started having acne scaring. I
  wanted to take this opportunity and tell everyone, find a good doctor. I spent
  over 5 months seeing Dr. Llorente for scars. It cost me over 2600 plus travel
  and alot of promises from her that she could fix the skin. Terrible if any
  results.
  I saw Dr. Romano in sfo, I have depressed acne scars. I went to him and said I
  had congested sking, clear that up and I probably be be happy. I have 2
  craters, clearing up the skin would not help those. I saw Romano because he
  was in a clinical trial for Artecoll in California.
  I asked him about subcision and he thought Artecoll and not much of that
  either. I saw a board certified doctor in Carmichael and he was insulting. He
  told me, get your hair cut then maybe you can get a job. I saw a doctor at the
  skin laser in Sacramento and she was pushing themage! I think it was her new
  toy, which would have just pulled the skin tighter.
  She mentioned laser resurfacing and I informed her that was for shallow acne
  scars. I saw a different doctor at the skin lasers, and by the time I saw her
  my acne was flairing up and I was extremely depressed and she wouldn't treat
  me. I had a collagen test done, told her about Artecoll, which she had never
  heard of. She told me to see a doctor for depression and then she help me.
  Enough, I went to Canada and saw Dr. Cauthers, the botox king. He is not cheap
  but a very good doctor. He thought artecoll was the way to go. He does do
  subcision but he said I had lost a of tissue. I began to show major
  improvements with Artecoll. I went back to the skin lasers thinking I'd try
  subcison and avoid a trip back to Canada.
  The doctor thought maybe another trip to Canada might be worth my while. She
  said you look so much better.
  I had one really ugly scar that dermbasion did nothing for.
  She cut it out and first I thought it still looked pretty
  white and yuck. The scar is finally showing improvment.
  I've been using some home peels and it it looks like the
  scar tissue is breaking down.
  I saw Dr. Ann Haas, who I like very much for a doctor in Sacramento. She
  thought maybe some subcison and the scars except the one I had excision done
  on. I have to wait on that one a bit. The one scar was really teatherd down
  and they both bleed. I didn't bruise at all. I did look like a chipmunk at
  work for a day. I'm not sure subcison will cure all the depression but it will
  help if I go back to Canada for more Artecoll.
  I also saw Dr Fitzspatrick in San Diego. I think he treats the rich and famous
  there. He wanted $8500 for 3 excision and laser resurfacing. It was such a
  deal, where do I sign up? I also saw Dr. Groot in Edmonton Canada, who was
  ok,he wouldn't treat me because they were having
  problems with people from the states suing.
  He was a kind doctor. It seems like everyone of these
  doctors has a different opinion on how to treat acne scarring.
  Do your research. I'm like everyone else here. We are victims of a skin
  disease, but we are not eligible for help, they consider it cosmetic. I lost 3
  years of my life because I was too ashamed of my scars to be seen by people
  who knew me before.
  If you live near Sacramento, I can recommend Dr. Ann Haas.
  She is very upfront. If you live in Britsh Columbia, Dr. Cauuthers get a big
  A. I think he should have done subcision on the scar but he seemed to think
  Artecoll was the way to go. I still have scars but they are better.
  It's been a hard time as it is for everyone.
 

 

  Marc -- VS, 23:13:15 09/24/03 Wed

  I still cant get Marc outa my head.
  He seemed so ok. On the acne board I remember telling him that needling doesn't work
  and to wait for his swelling to go down and his scars would come back. And he
  replied saying his swelling was down and his skin looked awesome. But I kept
  persisting to wait at least 2 weeks before he gives his verdict, he was only
  like 5 days into the needling. I kept watching the acne board for his responses and
  like the past 2 weeks I hadn't seen one response from him. I thought to my
  self "ya i bet all his scars came back so he isnt responding anymore because
  he was claiming how great his needling went before." I kept thinking about
  Marc in the back of my head, thinking "why isnt he writing anymore on
  on the acne board?" And then poor marc commits suicide. THis gonna sound crazy and
  weird, but maybe i was having sychic powers or god was sending me a message to
  reach out to Marc, cause lately I been thinking about him and kept checking
  the acne board for his needling updates, and he wasnt posting.

  I dunno. I sound crazy for saying that. But i'm so sad. I'm so angry, I'm lots
  of emotions mixed together. I'm angry that he had to go through that pain.
  That everyone of us here has to go through this pain and weight on our
  shoulders.

  We cant just forget this, we cant have Marc be a forgettin memory and in 2
  weeks start posting about our scars without doing something about this. We
  dont deserve to live a life of misery, and no person deserves to be soo
  miserable and sad that they take their life away.

  I've been reading online, and online it says that many people commit suicide
  because of acne scars. We have to make a change. Marcs familly cant just burry
  him and forget this. They have to lobby, we have to lobby. Something has to
  change. I dont know what exactly has to change but something. Maybe have drs
  consider acne more seriously with better drugs. Have insurance companies cover
  scar revision instead of saying its cosmetic. THIS IS NOT COSMETIC, something
  that makes someone commit suicide, something that causes you to see a
  therapist and go on anti-depressants is not just cosmetic. acne scars ruin
  your mind, emotionally, physically, mentally its devestating.

  I'm so confused and sad and angry and ugh so many things built into one, i
  just dont know what to do.
  I dont understand why we dont have any drs in this whole united states of
  america, who can solve our problem. why wont at least 1 dr in this whole US or
  world rather, devote his life to acne scar research to find a cure to our
  problem. I just dont understand, its 2003 and we cant solve an acne scar?

  Sorry for rambling, i know i prolly made no sense. But i'm so frustrated.
 

 

   About Mark Sheep -- Maya, 20:39:01 09/24/03 Wed

  So many on the acne scar board have been pretty shocked and distressed..
  and at the same time the community pulls itself together to reach beyond its
  own pain to see how it can support each other. In fact, I think this incident
  has made an enormous impact in terms of healing for others. Strange how a
  tragedy can help the masses see that choices and hope is within their grasp.

  For my sanity, I can only see it as part of Marcs life purpose was to be
  'chosen' to be a sacrifice so that others could gain wisdom and understanding
  from this experience.

  It's been a really emotional ride last night and today, but it's opened doors
  for people too and that's what counts - to be able to achieve something
  positive out of something which could've sent people the other way. It's
  helped people open up more about themselves and those seeking more help than
  originally envisaged have kind of let down their false, cheerful masks and
  revealed more about themselves so that they can be supported.

  It's interesting to note at times like this how many people believe in God,
  prayer and have their own sense of something more than the ordinary. It's been
  like a prayer circle, with all the good wishes sending his spirit to some
  place of healing. When I lit a candle for Marc, I felt a sense of peace in
  myself too. Knowing Marc, I'm sure he's sending lots of blessings to everyone
  right now! He was a great guy in many, many ways, I'm really pleased I got to
  know him.

  Thanks Marc!

 

  marcsheep passing -- amez, 18:42:26 09/24/03 Wed

  This saddens me as well. As an occasional poster to the board I found his
  messages informative and articulate. It seems he was putting on a brave front
  when he posted the below message. If it's not acne scarring that caused the
  suicide, it certainly didn't help his outlook on life. Hang in there
  everyone...and look at yourself in good lighting a few times a day. this does
  help (in a "fake it till ya make it" kind of way)...

  vs and LT -- Marcsheep, 23:13:11 08/24/03 Sun

  i agree with vs that in some cirumstances suicide is ok ie. terminal illness
  or utterly unbearable living conditions, but to KILL YOURSELF over acne
  scarring is an appalling waste, especially considering how treatable it
  is....I defy anyone with severe acne scarring to say that they have never
  considered suicide as a solution, but LT you've got to realise that people
  exist with worse problems than yourself and myself....Goto a burn survivor
  website to get some perspective on how little significance our problems really
  have...Better yet volunteer at a burns unit in a local hospital (which I have
  done) and see real beauty, strength and pain...If you would rather die than
  live with scarring then rather than kill yourself LT get a facial tattoo,
  literally a black tattoo...It will hide your scars (as black cant cast a
  shadow on black) and though you would look different at least you could live a
  full life...This is however a very extreme solution...

  Marc
 

 

  Marc -- Antz, 13:17:22 09/24/03 Wed

  That's truly a shocking and awful thing, he seemed so together from his posts
  on here and on the acne board. I'm a staunch aethiest and the only good thing I can
  see is that he no longer feels suffering day in, day out any longer. My
  feelings go out to his loved ones.
 

 

   In memory of Marc... -- Denise1, 05:09:58 09/24/03 Wed

  I have spent much of today in tears and shock. I had gotten to know MarcSheep
  pretty well through private messenging at the acne board and am so hurt and
  disappointed at this tragic turn of events.

  I see that people have mentioned God and whatnot in their comments and my
  belief is that God can use things in our lives but he doesn't destin us to be
  horribly disfigured by things. God is sovereign but this is a fallen world;
  diseases abound. The goodness of God is hard to see and comprehend sometimes
  but it is there if you are open to seeing it.

  I personally believe that totally incompetent and ignorent doctors are to
  blame for the way acne is treated and the subsequent scarring. I am going to
  crusade for changes in the way acne is treated. I have thought about writing a
  book for a long time on acne and related scar treatments. I will dedicate my
  book to Marc, who I believe probably suffered needlessly. Doctors put young
  teens on antibiotics and it doesn't do anything but overburden the liver and
  guess what...?? When you stop taking antibiotics, the acne comes back way
  worse, so the doctor puts you on more antibiotics. Is this what sane people
  do? The same thing over and over with no result, but a worsening of the
  symptom?

  The more I have studied about what antibiotics do, and how doctors make acne
  worse by keeping people on them, the more outraged I get. I have always known
  this but recently I have done more studying for my book and am completely
  shocked at just how dangerous antibiotics can be.

  Words cannot express how broken my heart is. Marc was a funny, vibrant, warm
  young man with his whole life ahead of him. I don't believe that God choose
  such a path of torment for Marc or any of us. I do believe that God can make
  good come out of bad things, but I don't believe He authors them. God is
  active on this earth through His people, but this is a fallen world. Diseases
  and sickness are a part of life.

  Well, I have ranted and raged enough. I am just so frustrated and hurt I
  really am quite sad at this. Marc could've been the most awesome man alive and
  yet he was so alone in his pain. I only wish I had known how much.
 

 

  In loving memory of Marcsheep -- PK, 00:32:47 09/24/03 Wed

  Like any of us reading today's posts, I am devastated by the news of
  "Marcsheep" taking his life. THis is so utterly sad - such a loss, such a
  young life. I hadn't corresponded with him, but have read the posts of those
  who had, and how well they spoke of him.

  I concur with all that has been said, especially in the sentiments expressed
  by as Eric, who, like me, apparently is a Christian who believes that there
  must be some greater purpose in all this and a solution to the suffering of
  all of those with facial scarring.

  I'm certain that the scarring on my face as a result of a botched lasering job
  (see former posts...) is NOTHING as compared to what Marcsheep and others must
  suffer with. Yet I know how even this has devastated me, and soured my entire
  outlook on life. I can't imagine living an entire life feeling as such.

  I realize how incredibly blessed I am to be able to receive treatmemt by Dr.
  Scheibner in Austrailia. I am racing around getting work and packing done, as
  I leave tomorrow. As my past posts have indictaed, Dr. Scheibner has been a
  true saint, in making possible for me such treatment, and she and I both
  believe, as Christians, that God has a larger purpose in our meeting. (I am a
  lobbyist in the state of California, and intend to make public
  her...ideally... successful treatment of my scars, publicize her unique
  lasering techniques, and lobby for the reinstatement of her California
  license, which she states was revoked/surrendered as a result of fraudulently
  and falsely filed claims against her.)

  Dr. Scheibner has a real heart for God and those suffering from scarring, and
  has made her life's work treating people such as us. Please don't lose hope,
  please pray with us that through our collective efforts Dr. Scheibner may be
  able to return to the US and not only reestablish her practice, but also teach
  others how to use her unique scar reversal lasering techniques.

  I have faith that my scarring will be completely reversed. But whatever the
  outcome, I'm here for the long haul, and hope to help others like Marcsheep
  not lose hope, but find real solutions.

  May God have mercy on his soul, and may he find the peace and comfort which
  elluded him here.

  PK
 

 

  In loving memory of Marcsheep -- PK, 00:30:58 09/24/03 Wed

  Like any of us reading today's posts, I am devastated by the news of
  "Marcsheep" taking his life. THis is so utterly sad - such a loss, such a
  young life. I hadn't corresponded with him, but have read the posts of those
  who had, and how well they spoke of him.

  I concur with all that has been said, especially in the sentiments expressed
  by as Eric, who, like me, apparently is a Christian who believes that there
  must be some greater purpose in all this and a solution to the suffering of
  all of those with facial scarring.

  I'm certain that the scarring on my face as a result of a botched lasering job
  (see former posts...) is NOTHING as compared to what Marcsheep and others must
  suffer with. Yet I know how even this has devastated me, and soured my entire
  outlook on life. I can't imagine living an entire life feeling as such.

  I realize how incredibly blessed I am to be able to receive treatmemt by Dr.
  Scheibner in Austrailia. I am racing around getting work and packing done, as
  I leave tomorrow. As my past posts have indictaed, Dr. Scheibner has been a
  true saint, in making possible for me such treatment, and she and I both
  believe, as Christians, that God has a larger purpose in our meeting. (I am a
  lobbyist in the state of California, and intend to make public
  her...ideally... successful treatment of my scars, publicize her unique
  lasering techniques, and lobby for the reinstatement of her California
  license, which she states was revoked/surrendered as a result of fraudulently
  and falsely filed claims against her.)

  Dr. Scheibner has a real heart for God and those suffering from scarring, and
  has made her life's work treating people such as us. Please don't lose hope,
  please pray with us that through our collective efforts Dr. Scheibner may be
  able to return to the US and not only reestablish her practice, but also teach
  others how to use her unique scar reversal lasering techniques.

  I have faith that my scarring will be completely reversed. But whatever the
  outcome, I'm here for the long haul, and hope to help others like Marcsheep
  not lose hope, but find real solutions.

  May God have mercy on his soul, and may he find the peace and comfort which
  elluded him here.

  PK
 

 

  In Memory Of Marcsheep -- vs, 23:19:40 09/23/03 Tue

  I just found out marcsheep commited suicide. I'm in complete shock and sad. I
  can feel his sadness during his last moments, lost of hope and frustration
  with life with scars. I pray to god he is in a peacefull place. A place where
  he doesnt have weight on his shoulders. A place of happiness.

  I hope Drs who only care about money could hear about stories like marcsheep.
  A young man who was so devestated with scars, he took his life. Drs consider
  acne scar revision cosmetic, but i'm sorry its NOT cosmetic. Acne scarring is
  something that causes great emotional and physical distress and depression.

  God please help us all, and take care of Marc and give him the happiness he
  deserved on earth.
 

 

  MarcSheep's passing -- John, 23:12:04 09/23/03 Tue

  I am haunted, heartsick and feel ill by the news of MarcSheep's passing. I
  didn't know him personally but he took the time to answer my inquiry about
  needling, here at the Forum. I know the mental anguish that scarring causes
  and I can almost imagine the absolute misery he was feeling. I am so sorry
  this kind soul had to suffer like this. God bless him and his family and
  friends. I send everyone here my condolences. Man, am I ever depressed over
  this news. Please, God, why can't there be resolution for our skin concerns?
  The pain for many of us is just unbearable!
 

 

   Remember Marc -- Eric, 22:15:00 09/23/03 Tue

  Hello all-

  It was with sad news from the acne board forum that I came here and found that
  Steve had already revealed what I have just discovered... that Marcsheep
  committed suicide. The reason for this does not have to do with scars that
  improved from needling... rather from severe scarring on his back that he had
  discussed only with Maya, and his fears of sharing housing when he was to
  begin at the University. These fears I guess were the reason why he chose to
  take his life.

  I am deeply grieved and shocked by this event. Marc was one of the youngest
  members of this forum, he had his whole life ahead of him. I know the pain and
  the suffering that he has felt all too keenly and have myself considered
  suicide in the past. But I will not go there again. Yes, it is true that God
  had an intent for giving us scars. But it is not his intent that we kill
  ourselves over them. He has a plan for each and every one of us, and although
  we suffer, remember also the suffering of Jesus, who died on the Cross. He who
  had done no wrong died for our sins, so that we may be put right with God.
  Jesus has suffered like few mortals have suffered before. He feels our pain
  and he is there to help us, if we will only open the door and let him in!

  Our situation is not hopeless! I will pray for Marc and hope that in death he
  will find the peace and salvation he has sought at the Lord's side. As for the
  rest of us, remember that it is not for us to judge God's choices or question
  the path he has laid out for us. But do remember that God intends for us a
  full and fruitful life, and that if resolution of our scars is one of the
  hurdles that needs to be jumped in order to achieve this, THEN HE WILL DO IT
  FOR YOU. All you need is resolution and belief that through God, you CAN and
  WILL accomplish this! There are many success stories out there by people who
  have triumphed over their scarring. The reason why we are not hearing about
  them so much is because many of those people have left this forum and are no
  longer agonizing over their scars! So take heart, and remember that there is
  hope!

  Let us pray for Marc and for each other and remember that death is not the
  way! In dire times and situations such as this, ask for the Lord for guidance
  and assistance and when he gives you an answer, be prepared to receive it!

  Bless your courageous, noble souls one and all. Remember that we are being
  tested now, as Jesus was tested on the cross, and that if we hang on and
  believe, we will find salvation.

  -Eric
 

 

  PK-Heading to Australia -- cb, 21:39:05 09/23/03 Tue

  Hello:

  Just wanted relay a message from PK, that she's really busy getting ready for
  her trip to visit Dr. Scheibner. She'll post to the forum upon her return. I'm
  wishing her the best and keeping her in my thoughts and prayers.

  On a more somber note-that is very sad news about Marcsheep. I remember him
  talking about his needling procedure. I read his posts on the acne board also. My
  thoughts and prayers go out to his family and friends. Scarring can affect
  more than your physical appearance, evidently in Marc's case it was too much
  to bear.
 

 

  Everyone.. I have sad news.... Marcsheep Committed Suicide Last Week -- Steve,
  19:48:27 09/23/03 Tue

  right now i have mixed emotions about what has happened.. IT kind of makes me
  mad that he gave up so soon, but really i dont know how extensive his scarring
  was and how deeply depressed Marc was.. I understand that Marc had needling
  done not to long ago with good success.. So i just dont understand why he gave
  up so soon.. It seemed as though he was on the path to great skin..

  This situation i admit makes me question God.. Why Does he choose to Humble us
  with dreadful scars knowing that some of us will take our lives because of
  it...

  I pray that Marcs soul is with God.. People Please Never give up.. NEVER EVER
  GIVE UP
 

 

  To MarcSheep - thanks -- Mary, 08:35:11 09/22/03 Mon

  Thank you for responding to my question on 9/1/03 about how the skin heals
  after another trauma/wound such as laser etc. Sorry about the late reply - I
  forgot to check back in here.
  Mary
 

 

  John -- J, 02:51:13 09/22/03 Mon

  hey John,
  So I called up a few places in Sydney that performs aquamid and they all quote
  me like $1000-$1500 per ml. Is that realistic?
  I'm still puzzled by how cheap you got it for, but am happy for you. Is your
  Dr. a normal GP or a plastic surgeon? and did he give you a mates rate because
  you personally know him?
 

 

  dvsadavssdv? -- Anna, 02:20:22 09/22/03 Mon

  Was hat das mit Narben zu tun? Bleib auf dem Thema.

  (translation)
  What does this have to do with scars? Stay on the topic.
 

 

  dvsadavssdv -- asdv, 19:03:12 09/21/03 Sun

  deutsche
  geld verdienen

 

 

  Fat transfer - scarring at location of fat removal -- Cameron, 13:19:32
  09/21/03 Sun

  Cityslicker, thanks for your detailed reply on fat transfer. I had my
  dime-sized scar that was caused by subcission filled in the depressed areas
  with collagen (as a test), and it looks great. Once the collagen wears off,
  I'll probably do fat transfer on it.
 

 

  Scheibner -- liz rohan, 05:32:33 09/21/03 Sun

  I did met Diane and Jim at Dr. Llorente office in Orange County. Dr. Llorente
  was my doctor there I had terrible results with her for a scar treatments

  Diane said she was burned with a laser, part of her
  lip was missing, holes in her skin,
  She looked great I know her ordeal went on for 5 years, searching for doctors.
  I know Scheibner was one of the
  doctors involved in the repair. I think Diane had
  fat injections done. She said what written in that
  article about Scheibner wasn't true at all.
  I spoke with Scheibner awhile back and considered going
  to Australia and having the laser treatment done, but I
  cowarded out. She told me it was a 6-7 hour treatment
  of low heat co2, can' remember what the so-call low heat was, so many
  centigrades, thought it was around 700.
  It is all I know about Scheibner, she maybe a great doctor.
  I always wonder why no other doctors try her treatment if it really works.

  Liz
 

 

   Alice -- meme^^, 09:14:56 09/20/03 Sat

  hey there..is smoothbeam available in singapore now? wat type of scars do u
  have??
 

 

  Cooltouch in Singapore -- Alice, 03:38:29 09/19/03 Fri

  Age :28
  Gender :Female
  Country :Singapore

  Thanks for the column here, and useful suggestions from Ping and LT. I didn't
  feel comfortable with Skin Centre's approach to smoothbeam.

  I finally flucked up enough courage to do my Cooltouch. I still feel more
  comfortable with my doctor's explanation.
 

 

  PK saying "thanks" -- PK, 21:49:10 09/18/03 Thu

  I am humbled and so touched by the each of your messages, offeirng
  encouragment and prayers. THANK YOU EVERYONE SO MUCH! Dr. Scheibner and I,
  along with "Anna" who has posted here before, really feel that this is GOd at
  work in bringing about a solution which will help far more people than just
  me. That is certainly my aim.

  TO all of you who have tried to reach Dr. S. and have been unsuccessful, I
  will do my best to relay your specific issues and concerns and will report
  back upon my return.

  PK
 

 

  Good Luck, PK, and God Bless -- John, 21:31:41 09/18/03 Thu

  PK, you are a wonderful example of the great things that can happen when one
  is proactive and determined. I believe--deep down in my gut and in my
  soul--that you and Dr. Scheibner will be a winning combination and that her
  expertise will totally correct the bungled work of your previous physician.
  God bless you for your courage and your fortitude and I will send my good
  thoughts with you (all the way to Australia) for your speedy and complete
  recovery.
 

 

   PK- Scheibner -- Eric, 19:29:41 09/18/03 Thu

  Yeah, PK!! That is awesome news, and a most miraculous intervention only God
  could provide for you. I congratulate you and wish you the best of luck as you
  travel to Australia to be treated by Dr. Scheibner. It is my hope that
  Scheibner can restore your face to normal and that with your help, she may
  make a triumphant return back to California... for my sake and everyone else
  who is interested in her laser methods!

  Never forget that if you ask, you shall receive, and God helps those who helps
  themselves. I think, PK, that you are a perfect example of this.

  Best of luck to you, and please keep us updated after your return from Sydney.

  -Eric
 

 

  PK- Scheibner -- Guest Again, 19:23:22 09/18/03 Thu

  Hi,
  Would you als ask her if her technique could be used to treat pitted and
  shallow ice-pick type scarring?
 

 

  PK- Scheibner - -- Guest, 19:10:48 09/18/03 Thu

  Hi PK,
  Good luck with your treatment. Could you ask her a couple of questions while
  you are in sydney

  1. Is it okay to use peels before "her" laser treatment( not any technique,
  but "her gentle laser technique"? And if its not okay, then how long should
  one wait to ger "her" treatment after the peels? (Like Jessner peel)

  2.can her method be performed on asian skins?

  3.how soon can we expect her here in US? Will she be treating the patients?

  thanks so much and once again best wishes
 

 

  PK-Aussie bound -- cb, 18:17:31 09/18/03 Thu

  PK:

  What a story - best of luck to you on your trip. Thank you for sharing. Hoping
  good thoughts for you-a safe trip, successful procedure and speedy recovery.

  ~cb
 

 

  PK responding to email re Scheibner -- PK, 16:21:27 09/18/03 Thu

  Copied below text of email re Scheibner:

  HI Simon, not a bother at all. It was a couple named Jim and Diana, I guess
  the best way to put it really what that Diana (her husband was not so much a
  scar victim but someone who lived through the whole experience with his
  wife...) well, Diana had her face lasered about 8 years ago, and the dr went
  so deep that she had "holes" all over her face. Her lip was melted away - you
  know, the defining line between your lips and skin, etc. She didn't go out of
  her house for 2 years, she was so horrified by her looks.

  Well, she was treated by Scheibner and says that her skin gradually "filled
  in" and is now completely normal. She looked beautiful. They say it changed
  their lives dramatically, and have since devoted their lives to trying to help
  Scheibner get her license back here in states. We met for 2 hours, and they
  raved the entire time about Scheibner, her humanity toward treating those
  unable to pay, her amazing abilities AND the fact that she was able to heal
  Diana when everyone else had told her she needed skin grafting or other
  dramatic answers. Truly, this woman had been lasered by a guy who was just
  starting to use lasers, and she was bloody and raw for about a month. The dr
  himself admitted gross negligence, she must have been far worse than I. Yet
  she was healed by Scheibner and was able to resume a normal life. What a
  miracle.

  Hope this is helpful. I think I'll copy text of msg to post on forum, if OK
  with you.

  PK

  ----- Original Message -----
  From: "Simon"

  >
  > Hi PK,
  >
  > Thanks for your response. Sorry to bother you as I know you are busy but
  > can you just let me know what those two previous patients of Dr Sheibner
  > had said who you met with two years ago. Were they happy with their
  > results and her? If you could please let me know I would appreciate it.
  >
  > Thanks
  > Simon
  >
 

 

  Aquamid -- John, 10:47:49 09/18/03 Thu

  City,

  Website address is www.aquamid.info

  Hope this helps
 

 

   PK / John -- Cityslicker, 09:18:11 09/18/03 Thu

  PK, that is wonderful news, an incredible and miraculous turn of events. Good
  luck with your trip, I'm so hopeful, this will be the answer to your prayers.

  John, I do find your postings about Acqumid of interest, however, I can't find
  any additional information about this filler. Do you have any additional links
  or information for further review. Thank you. Regards. :-) Cityslicker
 

 

  PK - Sheibner- Australia -- John, 08:17:15 09/18/03 Thu

  Hi PK,

  That is fantastic news!!! When I met her about three weeks ago, I have to say
  she seemed one of the nicest people plus she tapped me on the shoulder when I
  came in and I thought that was a terrific gesture. I had a real good gut
  feeling about her.

  She also told me how the doctor who is taking over from her was a former
  patient who had scars yet when I saw this doctor her face was floorless. Plus
  the fact that her son works for her has got to count for something. She also
  mentioned how she would be writing a book soon.

  I honestly believe that those reports against her were false as there is no
  way she would have been able to treat for over 23 years if they were true.

  I am prepared to give her a shot....I really hope it works out for you and
  thanks for your posts. You will love this country it is a beauty
 

 

  To PK -- Maya, 08:12:31 09/18/03 Thu

  Wow!! Good luck - I'm sure everyone here wishes you a great recovery. This is
  an amazing story.
 

 

  Exodem touchup -- steve, 07:33:37 09/18/03 Thu

  Hey guys i just had an exoderm touchup with Dr. Rullan..
  THis is actually my second exoderm touchup in which my first yielded little or
  no improvemen..

  But since my last touch Dr. Rullan has revised his techniques.. Dr.Rullan
  basically spot treated all my scars with exoderm solution then tape my face
  over with type of masking tape.. The next day which would be today i went in,
  had the tape removed, then Dr. Rullan scraped off all the dead skin around my
  scars, applied more exoderm, then applied the masking agent used in the main
  exoderm procedure.. So currently my face is all green..

  This touchup was far more invasive then my last...And hopefully much more
  effective.. Ill keep you guys updated on my progress.. his mask will stay on
  my face for a few days
 

 

  PK To Donald -- PK, 06:58:23 09/18/03 Thu

  Dear Donald,

  thank you for your kind message. YEs, dermabrasion helped most all of my skin
  tremendously, but the dr did carve in too deeply on my nose, leaving me with
  the blasted scars which started this whole journey. Pleaes read msg re
  Scheibner, this is my answer for now. THanks again!
 

 

  Dr. Adrianna Scheibner calls PK to lend support!!! -- PK, 06:56:07 09/18/03
  Thu

  Listen everyone, you’re not going to believe this!!! I had emailed the
  renowned Dr. Adrianna Scheibner since this debacle occurred regarding my
  facial scarring, and actually called her clinic in Australia last week,
  seeking some sort of insights into my skin’s condition following this botched
  lasering job.

  In fact, I had met with 2 of Dr. Scheibner’s former patients here in Newport
  Beach when originally researching how to cure the original scar on my nose
  caused by a dermabrasion surgery 2 years ago. Since then, I’ve emailed
  Scheibner occasionally inquiring as to her return to the states, in the hope
  of being treated. But then, I finally gave up on her returning to the states
  any time soon, ended up at a Beverly Hills laser center, and the dr not only
  made my entire nose worse, he lasered my entire face, causing scars over about
  80% of my face!! After this horrific series of events of late, I updated Dr.
  Scheibner as to what all had occurred…..

  Well, last night my phone rings, and the caller identifies herself as Adrianna
  Scheibner. YES! The worlds’ leading laser scar revision expert had called me,
  from Australia! It was unbelievable!! She said that she was so concerned by my
  emails, in that I was made far worse by the dr who was supposed to be helping
  me, that she wanted to offer me any insights or help which she could. WE SPOKE
  FOR MORE THAN AN HOUR!!

  When I told her that this idiot doctor had lasered my entire face in less than
  3 minutes, when audibly gasped. No joke. A typical lasering face job should be
  about 1-2 hours. She confirmed that there is NO WAY that I could NOT have
  sustained severe damage to my dermis and epidermis given the incredibly hasty
  and shoddy job done, and also the newly created craters and abraded textures
  of my skin. BUT she assured me that scars such as this ARE reversible, with a
  laser in the hands of the right practitioner.

  Scheibner explained at length that THE SKIN SHOULD NEVER BE REMOVED
  (“Ablative”) WITH A LASER OF ANY SORT! That the only way to properly treat
  scars is to use a laser (such as what she has developed and patented) which
  very gently targets each individual dermis cell and helps stimulate the
  reactivation of that cell’s’ own genetic blueprint, triggering it to resume
  perfect healing and regeneration of the heretofore damaged tissue. Scheibner
  has treated more than 10,000 scar victims, here and in Australia and other
  countries. At one point, she actually filmed a television documentary in which
  she lasered her own skin to created a scar, ON CAMERA! and then over time
  gradually reversed it entirely. This is how confident she is of her abilities
  to reverse scars, that she would use her own face for demonstration purposes.

  Well, given that conventional wisdom even here in Plastic Surgery Mecca
  Southern California, states that the scarring which I have sustained will be
  permanent, Scheibner is the ONLY person who believes that I can be helped.

  I asked her about the published reports regarding her surrendering her license
  here in the states: she explained that she had been the victim of an
  incredible scheme by her former office manager, to embezzle from her and
  defraud her, and that this person orchestrated the filing of false complaints
  against her to the medical board. It’s a long story, but she insists that her
  license was wrongfully suspended, and that she has been writing a book which
  describes the whole, unbelievable story and all that occurred. She seemed very
  sincere and was listing facts and dates and a litany of events which occurred
  culminating in the loss of her license in the US. While it all sounds so
  strange, I do believe her. Anyone who has treated some 10,000 patients has got
  to know what they’re doing.

  Well, it gets even better: Scheibner offered to treat me, AT NO CHARGE,
  however, the airfare for me to fly from LA to Sydney is close to $3,000, and
  this would be near impossible for me to swing at this point. In response to
  this, SHE THEN OFFERS TO ALLOW ME THE USE OF HER OWN FREQUENT FLYER MILES SO
  THAT I CAN FLY FOR FREE TO BE TREATED BY HER!! YES! You read it right!

  She insisted, and I couldn’t believe it, but accepted her kind offer.

  I just now got off the phone with Dr. Scheibner again, WE SPOKE FOR ANOTHER 30
  MINUTES OR SO TONIGHT, arranging travel logistics, etc. Her son has arranged
  travel plans for me, AND DR. SCHEIBNER INSISTS THAT I STAY AT HER HOME WITH
  HER FAMILY, is this incredible or what!!!???? I will be staying 5 days, so
  that she can treat me several times, very gently, trying to ensure that my
  skin will be on its way to perfect healing by the time I leave.

  I asked repeatedly whether there would be any remote chance of ADDITIONAL
  scarring or problems, given all I’ve endured, and she has assured me that this
  would be impossible. Of course, that’s what the last guy said too, and look at
  me now, but her track record is just remarkable in this arena, and I feel safe
  in her hands. What other choice do I have? Resign myself to living with scars
  on my face for the rest of my life?

  So my friends, I leave Wednesday, September 24 for a week’s stay in Sydney
  with the Scheibner Family, where I will be treated by the scar revision guru
  herself. And all at no cost. (Naturally, I’ll be treating them to dinners and
  finding ways to repay them, etc. but their incredible hospitably and
  generosity is really unbelievable.).

  Oh, by the way, during my visit, that weekend we will be traveling to a small,
  rural town about 2 hours outside of Sydney so that Dr. Scheibner can treat
  several poor residents of that town, who have facial scarring. Somehow I
  suspect she’s not earning much for this, if anything. Does this tell us
  something about this person’s character? To spend her weekend treating poor
  patients who cannot travel to her offices.

  All I can say is that this woman is an incredibly selfless and genuine
  individual, a true humanitarian, to go to such lengths to help someone such as
  me. Please pray that all goes well, and I will report in when I return!

  Now, finally, let me address how all of this may ultimately help scar suffers
  elsewhere: First, Dr. Scheibner is working diligently to be able to resume her
  practice in California. She has an attorney representing her and signed
  affidavits from office members, her former aesthetician, etc. who attest to
  the fact that Scheibner never committed the acts of malpractice or negligence
  alleged by her former office manager who conspired against her. Why this is
  just now going forward, I don’t’ know, but suffice it to say that she believes
  that she will be able to overturn the revocation of her license fairly soon.

  As luck or providence would have it, I am a lobbyist in the state of
  California, the type of person hired by companies to cut through government
  red tape and get things done. I also serve on the board of directors of a
  local hospital and have access to the physicians who serve on the California
  Medical Board, etc. I truly believe that God put Dr. Scheibner in my path so
  that we could be of help to each other, and ultimately, I pray, of help to all
  those suffering from scars here in the US and elsewhere, whom she could treat
  if able to reinstate her practice. In response to Dr. Scheibner’s generosity I
  of course have offered to help her in any way possible.

  Furthermore, you may recall prior posts in which I raised the issue of using
  “micro current” technology to treat tissue wounds, as is already used in
  sports injury therapy. My sister in-law, a licensed acupuncture physician, had
  used this technology very successfully in treating a variety of illnesses, and
  she is convinced that it can also be calibrated to treat facial scars. When I
  ran all this by Dr. Scheibner, she believed that the micro current technology
  – which ALSO works by stimulating the individual cells to trigger their
  continued growth and to resume prefect healing – is similar to her specialized
  laser technology and COULD help scar victims. To that end, perhaps my sister
  in law (Lives in Florida) could start treating scar victims and see if there
  is any success.

  Well, I must get back to work. But wanted everyone to know what has transpired
  here…wish me luck!!

  Lastly, I suspect that I will get alot of emails about all this, please
  understand that I am swamped with work and may not be able to respond soon.
  Typed all of this for the edification and encouragement of others.

  PK
 

 

  Dr. Adrianna Scheibner calls PK to lend support!!! -- PK, 06:55:06 09/18/03
  Thu

  Listen everyone, you’re not going to believe this!!! I had emailed the
  renowned Dr. Adrianna Scheibner since this debacle occurred regarding my
  facial scarring, and actually called her clinic in Australia last week,
  seeking some sort of insights into my skin’s condition following this botched
  lasering job.

  In fact, I had met with 2 of Dr. Scheibner’s former patients here in Newport
  Beach when originally researching how to cure the original scar on my nose
  caused by a dermabrasion surgery 2 years ago. Since then, I’ve emailed
  Scheibner occasionally inquiring as to her return to the states, in the hope
  of being treated. But then, I finally gave up on her returning to the states
  any time soon, ended up at a Beverly Hills laser center, and the dr not only
  made my entire nose worse, he lasered my entire face, causing scars over about
  80% of my face!! After this horrific series of events of late, I updated Dr.
  Scheibner as to what all had occurred…..

  Well, last night my phone rings, and the caller identifies herself as Adrianna
  Scheibner. YES! The worlds’ leading laser scar revision expert had called me,
  from Australia! It was unbelievable!! She said that she was so concerned by my
  emails, in that I was made far worse by the dr who was supposed to be helping
  me, that she wanted to offer me any insights or help which she could. WE SPOKE
  FOR MORE THAN AN HOUR!!

  When I told her that this idiot doctor had lasered my entire face in less than
  3 minutes, when audibly gasped. No joke. A typical lasering face job should be
  about 1-2 hours. She confirmed that there is NO WAY that I could NOT have
  sustained severe damage to my dermis and epidermis given the incredibly hasty
  and shoddy job done, and also the newly created craters and abraded textures
  of my skin. BUT she assured me that scars such as this ARE reversible, with a
  laser in the hands of the right practitioner.

  Scheibner explained at length that THE SKIN SHOULD NEVER BE REMOVED
  (“Ablative”) WITH A LASER OF ANY SORT! That the only way to properly treat
  scars is to use a laser (such as what she has developed and patented) which
  very gently targets each individual dermis cell and helps stimulate the
  reactivation of that cell’s’ own genetic blueprint, triggering it to resume
  perfect healing and regeneration of the heretofore damaged tissue. Scheibner
  has treated more than 10,000 scar victims, here and in Australia and other
  countries. At one point, she actually filmed a television documentary in which
  she lasered her own skin to created a scar, ON CAMERA! and then over time
  gradually reversed it entirely. This is how confident she is of her abilities
  to reverse scars, that she would use her own face for demonstration purposes.

  Well, given that conventional wisdom even here in Plastic Surgery Mecca
  Southern California, states that the scarring which I have sustained will be
  permanent, Scheibner is the ONLY person who believes that I can be helped.

  I asked her about the published reports regarding her surrendering her license
  here in the states: she explained that she had been the victim of an
  incredible scheme by her former office manager, to embezzle from her and
  defraud her, and that this person orchestrated the filing of false complaints
  against her to the medical board. It’s a long story, but she insists that her
  license was wrongfully suspended, and that she has been writing a book which
  describes the whole, unbelievable story and all that occurred. She seemed very
  sincere and was listing facts and dates and a litany of events which occurred
  culminating in the loss of her license in the US. While it all sounds so
  strange, I do believe her. Anyone who has treated some 10,000 patients has got
  to know what they’re doing.

  Well, it gets even better: Scheibner offered to treat me, AT NO CHARGE,
  however, the airfare for me to fly from LA to Sydney is close to $3,000, and
  this would be near impossible for me to swing at this point. In response to
  this, SHE THEN OFFERS TO ALLOW ME THE USE OF HER OWN FREQUENT FLYER MILES SO
  THAT I CAN FLY FOR FREE TO BE TREATED BY HER!! YES! You read it right!

  She insisted, and I couldn’t believe it, but accepted her kind offer.

  I just now got off the phone with Dr. Scheibner again, WE SPOKE FOR ANOTHER 30
  MINUTES OR SO TONIGHT, arranging travel logistics, etc. Her son has arranged
  travel plans for me, AND DR. SCHEIBNER INSISTS THAT I STAY AT HER HOME WITH
  HER FAMILY, is this incredible or what!!!???? I will be staying 5 days, so
  that she can treat me several times, very gently, trying to ensure that my
  skin will be on its way to perfect healing by the time I leave.

  I asked repeatedly whether there would be any remote chance of ADDITIONAL
  scarring or problems, given all I’ve endured, and she has assured me that this
  would be impossible. Of course, that’s what the last guy said too, and look at
  me now, but her track record is just remarkable in this arena, and I feel safe
  in her hands. What other choice do I have? Resign myself to living with scars
  on my face for the rest of my life?

  So my friends, I leave Wednesday, September 24 for a week’s stay in Sydney
  with the Scheibner Family, where I will be treated by the scar revision guru
  herself. And all at no cost. (Naturally, I’ll be treating them to dinners and
  finding ways to repay them, etc. but their incredible hospitably and
  generosity is really unbelievable.).

  Oh, by the way, during my visit, that weekend we will be traveling to a small,
  rural town about 2 hours outside of Sydney so that Dr. Scheibner can treat
  several poor residents of that town, who have facial scarring. Somehow I
  suspect she’s not earning much for this, if anything. Does this tell us
  something about this person’s character? To spend her weekend treating poor
  patients who cannot travel to her offices.

  All I can say is that this woman is an incredibly selfless and genuine
  individual, a true humanitarian, to go to such lengths to help someone such as
  me. Please pray that all goes well, and I will report in when I return!

  Now, finally, let me address how all of this may ultimately help scar suffers
  elsewhere: First, Dr. Scheibner is working diligently to be able to resume her
  practice in California. She has an attorney representing her and signed
  affidavits from office members, her former aesthetician, etc. who attest to
  the fact that Scheibner never committed the acts of malpractice or negligence
  alleged by her former office manager who conspired against her. Why this is
  just now going forward, I don’t’ know, but suffice it to say that she believes
  that she will be able to overturn the revocation of her license fairly soon.

  As luck or providence would have it, I am a lobbyist in the state of
  California, the type of person hired by companies to cut through government
  red tape and get things done. I also serve on the board of directors of a
  local hospital and have access to the physicians who serve on the California
  Medical Board, etc. I truly believe that God put Dr. Scheibner in my path so
  that we could be of help to each other, and ultimately, I pray, of help to all
  those suffering from scars here in the US and elsewhere, whom she could treat
  if able to reinstate her practice. In response to Dr. Scheibner’s generosity I
  of course have offered to help her in any way possible.

  Furthermore, you may recall prior posts in which I raised the issue of using
  “micro current” technology to treat tissue wounds, as is already used in
  sports injury therapy. My sister in-law, a licensed acupuncture physician, had
  used this technology very successfully in treating a variety of illnesses, and
  she is convinced that it can also be calibrated to treat facial scars. When I
  ran all this by Dr. Scheibner, she believed that the micro current technology
  – which ALSO works by stimulating the individual cells to trigger their
  continued growth and to resume prefect healing – is similar to her specialized
  laser technology and COULD help scar victims. To that end, perhaps my sister
  in law (Lives in Florida) could start treating scar victims and see if there
  is any success.

  Well, I must get back to work. But wanted everyone to know what has transpired
  here…wish me luck!!

  Lastly, I suspect that I will get alot of emails about all this, please
  understand that I am swamped with work and may not be able to respond soon.
  Typed all of this for the edification and encouragement of others.

  PK
 

 

  J Guest & Cityslicker from Australia -- John, 02:20:32 09/18/03 Thu

  Cityslicker,

  Man don't bother with Fat Transfer in my opinion. I am telling you guys
  Acqumid is something really really good. Look I have had dermabrasions, laser
  etc and this thing is really good. I only had 1ml J but I am hoping to have
  2mls more or maybe only one ml but I really think this is a good product. OI
  do believe though that you should have scars get to their best result by
  excision and dermabarasion (definately not laser) before having fillers. In my
  opinion it is far better than Isolagen and to be frank my doctor and I weighed
  it up and he advised Aquamid ahead of Isolagen based on a number of reasons
  but especially cost. I can't see see how your own collagen is going to work
  better than a soft permanent filler made of 97% water plus isolagen is very
  expensive. Plus I know a woman who had a $20,000 face lift and was far happy
  with the results of Acquamid. I am telling you guys it is so soft and smooth
  as a filler...cheek impants would be firm I would imagine.

  J I will speak to him when I see him next ( he is an Australian Board
  certified surgeon) and ask if he minds me giving his name as I was the first
  person he has tried with this and I suppose would like to finish my treatment
  before recommending him.

  Guest I reply more about Shiebner when I have more time
 

 

  TO: JOHN -- J, 00:31:38 09/18/03 Thu

  hey john,
  Thats great news with your aquamid treatment. $400? thats quite
  cost-effective, how many mls did you need? Can I ask which Dr performed this
  procedure as I am from Sydney Australia.
 

 

  to john -- J, 00:28:47 09/18/03 Thu

  hey john,
  Thats great news with your aquamid treatment. $400? thats quite
  cost-effective, how many mls did you need? Can I ask which Dr performed this
  procedure as I am from Sydney Australia.
 

 

  Good Luck - City -- cb, 16:17:00 09/17/03 Wed

  Cityslicker - thanks for the update, I admire your tenaciousness in improving
  your self.

  Best of luck w/your procedure w/Dr. Rullan - sounds like you are in good
  hands. I hope you get the result you are looking for.

  Best regards
  ~cb
 

 

   Mike D. / CB -- Cityslicker, 07:53:13 09/17/03 Wed

  Mike D., my fat transfer was $1500 for 2 sessions. I was told that I should
  see results after 2 sessions and that sometimes a third session is needed and
  would be an additional $250. Though, I've had 3 sessions now and they didn't
  request any additional monies at my third visit. I was a little surprised in
  the last week since my last report, I've seemed to lost an additional 5-10% on
  my right side which was about 90-95% improved. And my left side appears to be
  about 70% improved.

  One of my concerns about fat transfer is what my long term results will be.
  While I've been extremely happy with the fat transfer results, I've had it
  done 3 times (total) since March, I'm not sure what my final results will be.
  The Dr. that did the fat transfer said that if you laid it down right that it
  would attach to the blood vessels and begin to grow on it's on. He also said,
  each time you have it done that a little more will stay permanently.

  I visited with a plastic surgeon last week who also does fat transfer. He
  stated that in his opinion fat transfer was not effective long term and to
  achieve the results I wanted, he recommended that I do cheek implants.

  I've not allowed enough time to elapse to make a final determination one way
  or the other, but am happy with the improvement thus far. Though, I am
  considering the cheek implants as that would add a lifting effect to both
  cheeks and also improve any depressions that the fat transfer doesn't
  completely correct. The plastic surgeon had the digital imaging to show what
  my simulated results might be and it made a good improvement if it turned out
  as he projected.

  CB, yes I'm going to do the oxygen therapy after Exoderm, though I realized
  today, I'm not sure if I'll be able to stay in town long enough for 3
  treatments of which Dr. Rullan stated that he recommended or if I'll only be
  able to squeeze in just 2 treatments. One of the things I'm up against is it
  may be a Friday, my 11th day in town, and I may only be at my 2nd oxygen
  treatment. If Dr. Rullan is not open Sat., I'm not sure if I'll be able to
  afford an additonal 3 nights hotel to wait til Monday.

  If I'm able to get my laptop working I'll try to update as I can, otherwise,
  I'll update as I return. Take care everyone. :-) Cityslicker
 

 

  PK -- donald, 05:58:34 09/17/03 Wed

  I wonder about your full-face dermabrasion. What did you get the full-face
  dermabrasion for? Since you said that before your laser tragedy that your face
  was perfect except for the nose, I suppose that the full face dermabrasion is
  what perfected. What sort of problems did you have before the dermabrasion?
  Perhaps your answer lies in another dermabrasion, seeing as how you seem to
  have an expert practitioner as well as only one month of downtime for perfect
  results. I've never heard of anyone else with "perfect" results before...
 

 

  Isolagen? -- Hawkeye, 04:29:51 09/17/03 Wed

  HI,
  Has anyone who's had Isolagen done feel its been worth the cost and has given
  them the results they expected or were told to expect be their doctors? So
  many people have had it done, yet there don't seem to be many people, who
  so-far are really recommending it. From what i've read and been told, the
  final result depends on the person more than the product and still may not
  give a life long result.
 

 

  PK providing copy of email to laser expert re repairing skin -- PK, 21:31:29
  09/16/03 Tue

  Hi everyone. I'm going to paste the body of a message to a Dr. Gladstone
  recommended to me by, I think it was "VS", whom I have contacted. THought that
  this would be helpful to others:

  Dear "PK":
  It usually requires up to one year for the skin (collagen) to remodel after
  laser resurfacing, so I would not attempt any procedure for several months. It
  may improve a great deal during that time. The best person in Southern
  California to see is Ron Moy, MD at 100 UCLA Plaza. You can say that you had
  emailed me.
  Sincerely,
  Hayes B. Gladstone, MD
  Director
  Division of Mohs Micrographic Surgery,
  Cutaneous Laser Surgery, and
  Aesthetic Dermatologic Surgery
  Department of Dermatology W0076
  900 Blake Wilbur Drive
  Stanford University School of Medicine
  Stanford, CA 94305-5334

  ...

  Dear Dr. Gladstone,

  You were recommended to me by a poster on the "Voy Forum" website for scar
  sufferers. I pray that you can offer me some hope that recent scarring of my
  face can be reversed. If there is any hope, I will gladly fly from So.
  California to consult with you.

  I underwent what was SUPPOSED to be a very light, non-aggressive lasering of
  my nose 6 weeks ago, to raise atrophic scarring caused 2 years ago by
  dermabrasion surgery. The laser was supposedly 90% non ablative (building up
  collagen), 10% ablative, akin to getting a sunburn.

  Through a tragedy of errors, the doctor ended up lasering my whole face, which
  I DID NOT WANT! I have been left with my face covered with shallow, intended
  scars where there were none! Two plastic surgeons have confirmed that this
  doctor invaded my dermis and has created new, permanent scars. They range from
  deep gouges to very shallow reddish patches of skin, all over my face. Some of
  them are quite shallow, but I can see the difference in texture and level of
  my formerly perfect skin and it bothers me immensely. My skin, up close,
  resembles a patchwork of different textures and slightly different levels,
  where it had been perfectly uniform and smooth.

  The doctor who performed this procedure as well as his staff have been
  systematically avoiding me for 4 weeks now, ever since the horrific results
  became evident. No response to emails or phone calls. I am in an outrage.
  Yet my primary concern is finding a way to undo this damage.

  Dr. Gladstone, let me pose the following questions:

  First, I will next be emailing several photos: first are examples of what my
  skin looked like before, then some taken today, which do not really show the
  full extent of the scarring, but if you zoom in, you can get an idea as to the
  varied textures of my skin and especially new nose scarring.

  What are the chances of being able to stimulate the memory in the dermis to
  cause the upper layers of my epidermis to keep "filling in" and return to
  their normal level and texture?

  How long does the skin take to fully heal after a laser treatment? My skin has
  not improved one iota for 3 weeks now. Doesn't this mean that it is finished
  healing?

  Is there any product which you can recommend which will cause the dermis to
  heal and the skin to "fill in" and return to its normal level and texture?

  Do you feel that you could successfully treat such indented scars caused by
  lasering too deeply? What I do NOT want is for what little of my facial skin
  remaining which is "normal", abraded lower to match the now-intended patches
  of skin on my face. I want these scars/patches to be able to be stimulated to
  return to the former level and texture of my formerly perfect skin. (Again, my
  nose was the only real problem with a couple of scars...the rest of my face
  was flawless.)

  Lastly, are you familiar with microcurrent therapy used to stimulate soft
  tissue wound healing? (Acupuncture specialists use it here for certain
  injuries.) Would this in any way the stimulate the dermis to resume healing
  and filling in?

  Thank you so much, Dr. Gladstone. I am praying that you can help me restore my
  skin to normal.
 

 

  To Antz from PK -- PK, 16:47:15 09/16/03 Tue

  Dear Antz, I am so sorry to learn about your experience with laser. I don't
  know what to believe, I of course want to believe those who say that the skin
  will keep healing and "filling in" - but my own, personal experience has been
  that after one month my skin pretty much stops healing. After a full face
  dermabrasion 2 years ago, after one month, that was it. Now I'm in week 6 of
  what was SUPPOSED to be a primarily non ablative laser (only removing a mere
  "one thousandth of an inch of skin at the epidermal layer...") and I have
  these indented scars and waxy texture ALL OVER MY FACE. THere has been no real
  progress for weeks now, hence my panic. I hate the dr who did this to me, the
  audacity, to not even respond to my urgent pleas for help. This is all I need:
  my face ruined and now the pain of reliving this experience thru the tedious
  legal system.
 

 

  CO2 experience -- Antz, 15:00:51 09/16/03 Tue

  Hi PK, I've had two laser treatments, one 10 months ago and one 4 months ago.
  I was told my skin would take 18 months to heal. I'm really worried though
  because my skin tecture is so waxy and strange looking and the laser has given
  me many shallow scras I never had before. It did help make my deeper scars
  shallower and smoother, but now my scars seem more prominent for some reason.
 

 

  To JOHN, PK---Scheibner -- Guest, 14:47:09 09/16/03 Tue

  Hi John,
  I am trying to get her side of the story. So lets see what she has to say
  about this whole thing. Did she tell you how many treatments you would need?
  Did she gaurantee any results? Did you get a chance to meet the other doc?
  When did you meet her? I am asking this bcoz someone mentioned that she is
  retired and Dr.Della would be treating the patients. Did you ask her if you
  could talk to her other patients? You said you had mixed feelings. Do you have
  any apprehensions about her ttreatment? Please let us know.

  PK,
  The coolaser is supposed to be non ablative and has been approved by FDA.Your
  doc is an asshole( excuse me for saying taht). Maybe if you have before/after
  pics you can talk to someone at the FDA.
 

 

  PK to Antz -- PK, 14:43:30 09/16/03 Tue

  Antz, hi it's PK, I am so sorry about your skin, and thank you again for
  having written me earlier. How long ago did you have your face lasered?
 

 

  Skin texture after laser Vs??? -- Antz, 12:27:18 09/16/03 Tue

  Vs you say it took your skin a year to heal after laser. By heal do you mean
  return to its normal appearance? My skin looks very waxy since having CO2 and
  I was wondering if it is something that goes away with time or if it's
  permanent.
 

 

  From Australia saw Sheibner PK & VS -- John, 05:34:40 09/16/03 Tue

  Hi Guys,

  I am from Australia and saw Dr Sheibner herself recently. I have to say my
  reaction is mixed. There was a dog that came running to the door, which may
  not worry some but I didn't like it. Yes the photos looked great but how does
  one know if we will get the same results. A plastic sugeon i know and respect
  really well is very scepitcal and says well if the laser works I will send all
  my patients there. I have to say though she does seem nice and I was told that
  she will be there if I want for the first treatment which would be performed
  possible by her or Dr Di Bella

  I mean reading that article though is a real worry posted by PK. I think it is
  too big a risk. I can live with myself now but if it got worse that would be
  horrific. Will I see her? I don't know. I really wish that someone who has
  been treated by her could post on this board---if there is anyone please post

  Onto some great news. I had some Acquamid injected by the same plastic Surgeon
  mentioned above and it worked really really well. For once I am very pleased
  with the results. And it was not really that dear---$400 Australian. Itis
  exactly like Collagen but permanent and it is silky smooth unlike other
  fillers. Personally I think it is better and much more cost effective than
  Isolagen. I think if I have 2-3 more mls my pits will be fine. The only
  problem I have is a few raised ones caused by the great drug Roaccutaine.

  PK I want to thank you so much for your posts, we should all help eachother
  when we can

  VS thanks heaps for all your posts. I was really looking forward to trying
  BenzaClin but couldn't get any in Australia which is a real problem. I only
  get the odd few pimples everynow and then but like VS said they take 2-3 weeks
  to go so wish I could try BenzaClin.
 

 

  PK again, with some hopeful news, homeopathic remedies -- PK, 05:08:29
  09/16/03 Tue

  Well, I promised to share any information which I found which could help
  others, and here is a start:

  My terrific sister in law, "Toni", is a highly-trained and licensed
  practitioner of accupuncture and eastern medicine. I've of course told her
  what's happened to me, adn she, along with my brother and father, have been
  incredibly supportive. AND my best friend, "Anna", who, belive it or not, I
  met on this board 2 years ago when trying to correct my ORIGINAL scar! We met
  and have become fast friends.

  Well, Toni has just emailed me with some info as to homeopathic remedies which
  she believes will help heal my new scars, and trust me, everything she has
  treated in the past, all types of maladies, have responded extremely well.
  She's basically the doctor who people go to when traditional western medicine
  has not worked.

  Here is Toni's email to me. If anyone is interested in getting some of these
  same remedies, either check locally or email me and I'll forward along to Toni
  and she could quote you a price and mail to you. I hope that this helps.

  PK

  PK – I packaged together some remedies for you today and dropped at overnight
  ship, however they may not have made Airborne Express in time for last pickup
  – I’m really sorry -- I was so busy with patients and calls today right up
  until 5:30 – but it is overnight so you should have it by noon on Wednesday at
  the latest. This is what I am sending you:

 

  Acute Rescue cream ---- this is a truly amazing and awesome healing cream for
  all kinds of injuries; it is homeopathic

  Injurotox ---- this is a homeopathic designed specifically for the healing of
  all kinds of injury and trauma to the body; speeds up healing process and is a
  must for anytime any tissue to the body is torn, broken, burned, traumatized,
  sprained, bruised, etc.

  Anti-Scar – this is another homeopathic designed specifically for treating
  scar tissue

  Magarite Pills – these are Chinese herbs for skin conditions on the face
 

 

  PK again, with some hopeful news, homeopathic remedies -- PK, 05:07:02
  09/16/03 Tue

  Well, I promised to share any information which I found which could help
  others, and here is a start:

  My terrific sister in law, "Toni", is a highly-trained and licensed
  practitioner of accupuncture and eastern medicine. I've of course told her
  what's happened to me, adn she, along with my brother and father, have been
  incredibly supportive. AND my best friend, "Anna", who, belive it or not, I
  met on this board 2 years ago when trying to correct my ORIGINAL scar! We met
  and have become fast friends.

  Well, Toni has just emailed me with some info as to homeopathic remedies which
  she believes will help heal my new scars, and trust me, everything she has
  treated in the past, all types of maladies, have responded extremely well.
  She's basically the doctor who people go to when traditional western medicine
  has not worked.

  Here is Toni's email to me. If anyone is interested in getting some of these
  same remedies, either check locally or email me and I'll forward along to Toni
  and she could quote you a price and mail to you. I hope that this helps.

  PK

  PK – I packaged together some remedies for you today and dropped at overnight
  ship, however they may not have made Airborne Express in time for last pickup
  – I’m really sorry -- I was so busy with patients and calls today right up
  until 5:30 – but it is overnight so you should have it by noon on Wednesday at
  the latest. This is what I am sending you:

 

  Acute Rescue cream ---- this is a truly amazing and awesome healing cream for
  all kinds of injuries; it is homeopathic

  Injurotox ---- this is a homeopathic designed specifically for the healing of
  all kinds of injury and trauma to the body; speeds up healing process and is a
  must for anytime any tissue to the body is torn, broken, burned, traumatized,
  sprained, bruised, etc.

  Anti-Scar – this is another homeopathic designed specifically for treating
  scar tissue

  Magarite Pills – these are Chinese herbs for skin conditions on the face
 

 

  PK with summary of laser article -- PK, 04:56:41 09/16/03 Tue

  Well, upon reviewing copyright issues, let me just provide the gist of what
  this LA Times article was about, plus explain that the link was provided by
  another poster earlier today, if anyone wants to get their own copy:

  "Sally" began to notice her aging skin soon after her daughter was born. When
  she decided her face needed laser skin resurfacing--better known as a laser
  peel--she didn't expect miracles. She just wanted to look fresher, more
rested.

  "No problem," she remembers hearing from the doctor she had selected carefully
  and trusted. Within two weeks, he told her, expect to look better and be back
  to normal.

  But at the two-week mark, healing wasn't progressing. Scars appeared. She
  recalls: "I looked like I had been in a knife fight."

  Now, nearly two years and four corrective surgeries later, the 40-year-old
  mother says she is more than $16,000 out of pocket and still needs one
  additional procedure.

  The article also explains that re: Dr. Adrianna Scheibner the Medical Board of
  California suspended Scheibner's license, accusing her of gross negligence,
  repeated acts of negligence, drug abuse, incompetence and excessive
  prescribing.

  The board cites the cases of four patients who underwent laser facial
  procedures that left some with third-degree burns and permanent scars. In one
  case, a patient supposedly wrote Scheibner a check for $60,000 after being
  medicated, underwent up to 20 hours of laser surgery over two days and is
  permanently scarred, according to the board.

  Wow. What a tragedy for these poor people.
 

 

  PK responding to kind messages, Scheibner, laser article, etc. -- PK, 04:45:00
  09/16/03 Tue

  THank you so much everyone who is emailing me and posting here. It's
  encouragement like this that helps me even get out of bed each day. Despite so
  many negative prognoses (drs and all) I am determined to do anything I can to
  reverse this damage AND I am going to commit my time and energies to helping
  others in this same boat. My boyfreind doesn't understand the devastating
  impact which facial scarring has on someone, I feel as though I will never be
  the person who I was. As though I'm grieving the loss of a loved one, well,
  who I was in terms of how I looked is certainly dead.

  More answers: Yes, Dr. "Della" is the person now handling Scheibner's work.
  Scheibner seems to have been both the "guru" of scar revision via lasers and
  also someone who horrifically scarred several patients here in US. I am going
  to try and copy the text of an article which another poster tipped me off to,
  which speaks to this whole issue and ALSO informs us of what happened with
  Scheibner. IT was printed in LA TImes in 1997. I'll delete name of girl who
  was interviewed to protect her privacy, but in fact, I ACTUALLY WAS ABLE TO
  TRACK DOWN THIS WOMAN BY A TON OF RESEARCH TODAY, AND WE ACTUALLY SPOKE BY
  PHONE!!!!

  you got it, I contacted the very person who is described in the article I will
  next post on the board, and she tells me that her face was just destroyed by a
  botched lasering job, likely far worse than mine, and yet after 5 additional
  laser treatments, co2 plus erbuim yag, she is about 80% better. Deepest scars
  still there, but more shallow ones pretty much gone. I write this for the
  edification and encouragement of others.

  I will next try to copy the text of this article for everyone's
  information.....

  PK
 

 

  PK responding to kind messages, Scheibner, laser article, etc. -- PK, 04:42:23
  09/16/03 Tue

  THank you so much everyone who is emailing me and posting here. It's
  encouragement like this that helps me even get out of bed each day. Despite so
  many negative prognoses (drs and all) I am determined to do anything I can to
  reverse this damage AND I am going to commit my time and energies to helping
  others in this same boat. My boyfreind doesn't understand the devastating
  impact which facial scarring has on someone, I feel as though I will never be
  the person who I was. As though I'm grieving the loss of a loved one, well,
  who I was in terms of how I looked is certainly dead.

  More answers: Yes, Dr. "Della" is the person now handling Scheibner's work.
  Scheibner seems to have been both the "guru" of scar revision via lasers and
  also someone who horrifically scarred several patients here in US. I am going
  to try and copy the text of an article which another poster tipped me off to,
  which speaks to this whole issue and ALSO informs us of what happened with
  Scheibner. IT was printed in LA TImes in 1997. I'll delete name of girl who
  was interviewed to protect her privacy, but in fact, I ACTUALLY WAS ABLE TO
  TRACK DOWN THIS WOMAN BY A TON OF RESEARCH TODAY, AND WE ACTUALLY SPOKE BY
  PHONE!!!!

  you got it, I contacted the very person who is described in the article I will
  next post on the board, and she tells me that her face was just destroyed by a
  botched lasering job, likely far worse than mine, and yet after 5 additional
  laser treatments, co2 plus erbuim yag, she is about 80% better. Deepest scars
  still there, but more shallow ones pretty much gone. I write this for the
  edification and encouragement of others.

  I will next try to copy the text of this article for everyone's
  information.....

  PK
 

 

  To PK -- Scheibner -- Guest, 04:26:57 09/16/03 Tue

  Hi,
  I dont know if thi shelps you but i rememebr someone at the acne board posted about
  some research going on in london. The website is www.renova.com. I think its
  about skin regenerationa nd stuff like that.
  About Dr.Scheubner i really dont understand why she souldnt have tauht others
  about her technique. Many others would have benifited from thta technique.Did
  they tell you that it was Dr.Della who would be treating the patients??
 

 

  PK...hang in there -- amez, 03:08:34 09/16/03 Tue

  I just wanted to let you know that I've read the trail detailing your
  nightmare and my thoughts are with you. That your doctor is avoiding your
  messages is disgraceful, and criminal! My only advice is to carefully document
  every attempt and reply so that you can sue the @#$#@ out of em.

  I know the money means nothing at this point. I was also thinking...since
  these are relatively fresh wounds, what do people on the board think about emu
  oil and peptides? I know emu oil is gentle enough but would the copper
  peptides help at all? If this is applied after needling I would think it could
  work here too. It can be so discouraging getting expert medical opinions that
  say "you're scarred for life." I say keep researching all of your options to
  work on the situation. Good luck to you.
  --amy
 

 

  To "Guest" and "VS" from PK -- PK, 19:26:06 09/15/03 Mon

  I can't thank you both enough for resonding, yes, I have been going out of my
  mind, as every day I see more and more scarring, and all I have researched
  thus far tells me that atrophic (indented) scarring is permanent, once the
  dermis is invaded too deeply. 2 plastic surgeons, including a burn center
  expert, told me that I have sustained permanent scarring, AND at the burn
  center, they are presently treating another patient marred by this same
  doctor! You can imagine my panic!

  It is now 6 weeks since my treatment. All their literature states "1-2" day
  healing time. SO you can understand my fears - this was supposed to be a VERY
  gentle laser, far less invasive than the CO2 or Erbium Yag, yet here I am, 6
  weeks out, with patches of skin about teh depth of a dime, in all shapes and
  sizes all over my face. My chin and nose are teh brown, waxy texture, oh, it
  is a nightmare.

  But VS, your input helps me greatly, I am so encouraged to hear that you, too,
  had these weird intended craters which eventually healed? Can you tell me more
  about what they looked like? Does anyone know if lasering such as this
  destroys the elacticity of the skin, or damages the dermis or epidermis
  irreparably? Honest to God, my skin feels less plump and supple, like i've
  aged 15 years. Which, at age 45, is all I needed. But again, VS, thank you for
  your input. My skin was lasered 6 weeks ago, the bloody and ozzing stage ended
  5 weeks ago, now it's been just seemingly getting worse and worse as my skin
  is "settling in" from having been swollen and I see these new, abraded
  textured and intended patches all over my face, new ones every day.

  What I don't understand is, if in fact this may heal OK, why the laser
  apparently went so deep as to create all these indended areas which now need
  to be "filled in" in the first place? My skin HAD no such craters! Can you
  explain this VS, did your doctor explain this at all? My dr, of course, isn't
  responding to any of my phone calls or emails.

  As for Scheibner, I also had heard about her botching someone's face, but not
  the details Guess provided. How uttterly tragic. What was she thinking, 20
  hours of lasering????? I feel so sorry for that patient. Oh my God.

  I CALLED the Scheibner center in Austrailia today! Got thru - get this:
  Scheibner has basically retired, is "travelling" and has turned her practice
  over to some woman who has been there a whopping 4 weeks. Great. Here, some dr
  with 20 years experience seems to have ruined my face, who would trust their
  face to a dr at the practice 4 weeks? No matter her former training...

  Thank you again everyone, I pray that my skin will start healing rather than
  continuing to get worse. Keep those messages coming! This is my main source of
  input and support in this debacle.

  PK
 

 

  TO PK----- About Scheibner -- Guest, 15:05:45 09/15/03 Mon

  Hi,
  Did they get back to you? I found an article on the web and i thought you
  should know this. Search for Adrianna Scheibner and you will find some
  articles. click on the first one. You have to pay 2$ to view it online.
  whoever wrote atht article mentioned that Dr.Scheibner burnt some patients at
  her Los Angeles Office and the dept revoked her license (dut to repeated acts
  of negligence, drug abuse etc) in 97. One patient wrote the doctor a check for
  $60,000 after being medicated, underwent up to 20 hours of laser surgery over
  two days and is permanently scarred, according to the board.

  You will find the article here:
  http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/latimes/search.html

  I was really surprised. I have their brochure and the pics look really
  amazing. I dont know what to say now. If they get back to you let us know.
  Maybe you can ask them about this case and her license and see what they have
  to say about this.

  Good luck with your tretament
 

 

  Needling does not work for all -- vs, 11:55:48 09/15/03 Mon

  i guess this is my final update.

  Its been a while since i had needling done. NO improvement. Even no
  improvement in areas I let scab over.
  Along my temple I have hyperpigmentation spots from the needling, i'm using
  hydroquinone to bleach them out, but its a slow process. I hope its not
  permenant.

  ANyways my verdict is, personally for me Needling does not work. And issues
  such as not being completley sterile 24/7, and having someone who doesnt know
  the the medical background basics of skin working on your face can be
  dangerous. I dont recommend this procudurem, it cost me 400 dollars. Although
  black and blue claimed this was still cheaper than a drs office visit.
  Obvoiusly they never been to plastic surgeons, cause plastic surgeons charge
  around the same price, subcision is 500 full face, smoothbeam is 300 for full
  face. And there you got trainded MDS and esthicians doing it.
  So thats my verdict

  However, if you find someone who charges 100 bucks.. I say give it a shot!
  maybe it will work for you, and if it doesnt work for you, big deal you lost
  100 bucks. worth the risk!
  Sterility I noticed wasnt a major concern at tattoo parlors. The equipment of
  course was sterlie, need was sterlile, gloves were sterile, but when you go
  touching things such ass stuff on other counters, or a water bottle to get
  some water, or a bunch of other things you touch....that isnt sterile anymore
  you automatically destarlized everything. Now you run the chance of bacterial
  infecntion in your freshly bleading face. Much more care is takin for
  sterility at a drs office. Steriliy is usually their top concern.
  So thats something else to think about!

  anyways take care you all
 

 

  TO PK -- VS, 11:42:08 09/15/03 Mon

  Dear PK

  Listen to me, I know your totally going paranoid right now. your very scared
  and confused. Take a breather, try to relax for a second, everything will turn
  out ok.

  How long has it been since the procedure?
  I'm sure not that long yet. Your skin is still molding and growing. Just make
  sure to keep applying vasaline to any areas that scab or bleed or ooze. And
  clean the area with strelie cotton balls or gauze. A combination of distled
  water and distled white vinegar is a great agent to use for cleansing up crust
  and scabs and ooze and blood from your face.

  Your skin will level out.. dont worry. NO harm is done yet I hope, and its too
  early to know. WHen i had full face laser, some areas were totally deep down
  to my dermis basically. I looked like i had new craters all over.. but they
  eventually evened out. SO stay calm, i'm here for you for support, I know drs
  you can go to incase this ends up being permanent. Just calm down and give it
  time. Time is the key. Give your self another good month. My skin took about a
  yr after laser to heal up.

  I hope I was helpfull!
 

 

  hi i'm new here -- steeler fan, 10:32:03 09/15/03 Mon

  well i'm 19 and have been suffering from acne scars around 4 years. it was
  never really that bad till 2 year ago. it seem as time went on my scars got
  more noticeable. i know nothing about the terms for the type of scars i have,
  nothing about what type of treatments i should get, and i don't know where 2
  go 2 get help. i am totally lost. can some1 help me please. oh! and i live
  near the los angeles area. so if any1 can tell me where 2 go or call anything.
  i will appreciate it.
 

 

  hi i'm new here -- steeler fan, 10:30:11 09/15/03 Mon

  well i'm 19 and have been suffering from acne scars around 4 years. it was
  never really that bad till 2 year ago. it seem as time went on my scars got
  more noticeable. i know nothing about the terms for the type of scars i have,
  nothing about what type of treatments i should get, and i don't know where 2
  go 2 get help. i am totally lost. can some1 help me please. oh! and i live
  near the los angeles area. so if any1 can tell me where 2 go or call anything.
  i will appreciate it.
 

 

  Eric -- steve, 06:11:10 09/15/03 Mon

  Hey Eric.. Great to hear from you..

  As far as my needling goes i didnt get the results some of these others
  did..Because i have such oily skin i think my scars in particular are pretty
  tough to revise..But i did get a few improvements in 2 specific scars that i
  can see a pretty good improvement.. Its barely been over 1 month since my last
  needling so im hoping ill see more improvement over the next month..

  I go in to see Dr. Rullan for my Exoderm touchup on the 16th and 17th of this
  month.. Im hoping with the touchup, CP serums, and my Glycolic any salyiclic
  home peels im going to start see drastic improvement within the next few
  months.. My hopes are high..

  God willing my face will be nice and clear within the next year or so..

  Having acne scars has been such a humbling experience.. Its definetely helped
  me to put my life into perspective and gave me a greater insight in this world
  of pain and struggle.. To everyone.. Never give up hope, there are many thing
  you can do to improve your skin.. Pray to God and ask him to guide you into
  the direction of clear skin and higher self esteem, and Lead you he shall...

  Stay strong everyone
 

 

  PK re: laser scars to all those who are writing -- PK, 23:49:36 09/14/03 Sun

  My heartfelt thanks and gratitude to all those who have written, privately and
  on the board, for your sympathy and suggestions in my debacle. Yes, I should
  be able to get some good digital photos from before and after, I am working to
  secure the befores right now. As for Scheibner, I have emailed her offices in
  the hope of getting some input. Why they can't share their technology or
  technique with a dr here is beyone me, as most of us can't afford to fly for
  3K to Austrailia, several times over for treatment.

  The laser, belive it or not, was neither a CO2 nor erbium yag. It was
  supposedly a far more gentle laser, the "Coollaser" developed by the very dr
  who treated me. I am so angry that no one will give me answers as to what the
  heck went wrong nor acknowledge that they have screwed up my face.

  Thank you again everyone, please give me any more feedback or suggestions, I
  will act on every good idea.

  PK
 

 

  To Maya -- Mystery, 21:21:34 09/14/03 Sun

  Hi Maya,

  Glad to hear of your success with punch excision. I had a couple done before
  and they were an improvement; the doctor at the time left the stitches in only
  3 days so I don't think they healed as well as they could have.

  Tomorrow I am getting a few more done, this time by my derm, and the stitches
  will stay in a week. I'm going to work this way so hopefully I won't get too
  many questions :(
 

 

  Smoothbeam and V-beam. -- ross, 21:11:38 09/14/03 Sun

  Hi everyone,

  I am brand new to this board and am impressed by the information and candor of
  the messages. I had the smoothbeam laser done a week ago and will have the
  second done in two weeks. My major reason for having the smoothbeam is for
  acne and secondly for scars. I would say I have moderate scarring. The laser
  is supposed to damage the sebaceous glands so production will be slowed or
  stoped. It is also supposed to increase collagen production which would
  improve scars. I will let you know how it goes. I am also considering the
  V-beam laser for some scarring/redness. Does anyone have any experince with
  that? I have several red spots that they suggested a pulse dye laser would
  help? It sounds like most of the posts to this site concern the pitted scars.
  I have some of those but the red ones are more noticeable. If any one has any
  questions about the smoothbeam I would be happy to help any way I could.
  Thanks for your time.
  P.s I completely understand the frustration and despair that accompany acne
  scars. I am 28 and still dealing with acne and will have to deal with the
  scars from the past 14 years or so. My only advice is that there are people
  much worse off (just consider the third world) and that decent people will not
  judge you by your physical apperance.
 

 

  CO2 and Isolagen -- Antz, 17:58:49 09/14/03 Sun

  Firstly PK, my heart goes out to you, it sounds like he used an erbium or CO2
  laser as I've had CO2 and the skin problems sound similar to mine. You must be
  able to sue this person if you didn't give permission for your whole face to
  be done. Your skin will improve over the next 6 months but you may be stuck
  with new scars and bad skin texture like I was following CO2.

  cb, I would say that CO2 made my deepest scars a lot shallower, but the damage
  to my skin probably outweighs the overall benefits I've had. The Isolagen has
  definately made my skin better and made my scarring shallower, but its still
  too early for me to recommend it. I had my first set of injections two months
  ago and I've got 2 more sets to go. My doctor told me it takes up to a year
  after th elast injections to see the final result. To be honest though I don't
  think it will help with the texture problems caused by the CO2.

  This really depresses me because the whole area around my mouth was done which
  has left me with a waxy, indented skin texture and in bright light I look like
  homer simpson and I'm female!!!

  :(

  I promised myself I'd give it at least 3 months after my last Isolagen
  injections before trying anyhtin else. If I could just get rid of the awful
  skin texture I could put up with the shallow scarring to be honest. The
  combination of both makes me feel like I haven't achieved any real progress so
  far.
 

 

  Cityslicker -- Mike D, 06:20:32 09/14/03 Sun

  How much did the fat transfer procedure cost?
 

 

  Marcsheep -- Mia, 21:08:01 09/13/03 Sat

  Marc,
  How is your skin looking post-needling day 7, is it?
  I'm considering having it done soon and wanted to see how you were doing this
  far out. I know you posted previously 3 or 4 days out amazed by your results,
  but do you still feel the same way and if, so do you continue to see more
  improvement? Please keep us posted. Also what was your post procedure regimen?
  Thanks,
  Mia
 

 

  Dr.Scheibner - to PK -- Sweety, 19:20:37 09/13/03 Sat

  Hi PK,
  I am really sorry to hear that. I think there should be a law or something to
  control these greedy
  B------s Most of the doctors are good for nothing. All they need is money. No
  wonder that they still couldnt figure out a solution to acne. I read on
  the acne board website that Dr.Scheibner's license had been surrendered in '97 bcoz
  she got involved with some substances and burnt a patient but that was in 97.
  But apart form that she is supposed to be the best and i contacted their
  office and they sent me a brochure and the pictures are pretty impressisve.
  there is one picture where the patient was treated for holes and burns left
  from laser resurfacing and its really impressive. However when i called the
  offcie they said that some other doc who got trained by sceibner and who has
  been working with her for several years would be treating all the patients

  http://www.voy.com/10956/3/

  do a search on this page for Scheibner. One of the posters elizabeth rohan)
  mentioned that she met this nurse who actually worked for scheibner. You might
  find it useful.
  Good luck to you
 

 

  PK -- Charlotte, 17:28:28 09/13/03 Sat

  PK, I was alarmed upon reading of your nightmare and although I don't have any
  answers, I just wanted you to know how bad I felt for you, too. Did the two
  plastic surgeons you saw afterward have any suggestions of anything that could
  help repair the damage? I wouldn't trust going back to the same doctor who did
  this to you for a remedy either. Did his office take before pictures of you
  before they started? If so, and if you can't find any other good, clear
  pictures of yourself before, then if they say you already had these scars, I'd
  say they should prove it by pointing it out to you in the before pictures.
  Scar repair is so expensive, especially the newest technology, and some
  methods like collagen and fat injections have to be done over and over again
  because, although quickly effective, they don't last. If you can get evidence,
  even witnesses, that your skin was not like this before, I'd definitely sue so
  that you have the resources to seek out the remedies you'll need.

  When I was only 32 (7 yrs ago), I was told by a plastic surgeon that I needed
  a full face lift to correct my acne scars, followed by a CO2 laser resurfacing
  6 mos later. I was shocked and declined, and since then I found out that with
  a face lift, the surface tension of the skin will relax, and my scars would
  have been back to the way they were before facelift, except I'd have long
  scars running under my hairline and behind my ears. And I've heard all kinds
  of bad experiences and lasting bad effects with CO2 laser. Years before that I
  came close to seeking out a dermabrasion (it was the only thing offered at the
  time). Thank God I didn't have the money to do it at that time and dropped the
  idea. So I've come close to some bad stuff, too - but because I was chicken or
  broke or something, I was spared.

  This and another message board at the acne board are really good places to find help
  and compassion. Please keep us posted.

  Charlotte
 

 

  Thank you John. -- PK, 15:49:38 09/13/03 Sat

  Dear John,

  I am up because I can't sleep. Thank you for your incredibly kind and
  supportive message. I agree with all you've said, and I am so angry at what
  has been done to me. I WILL force the dr to meet with me, but in the meantime,
  need to get some good digital photos of me before and after, as this asshole
  (sorry) is refusing to acknowledge that there is even a problem. THen, if this
  is what's he's done to me, how do I trust him to fix this and not make me even
  worse? I am living a daily nightmare.

  I will report him to the medical board and also likely sue. What a waste of my
  time and money - all because I was trying to fix a former scar.

  Thank you again my friend.
 

 

  PK -- John, 15:15:47 09/13/03 Sat

  PK, my heart breaks for you. I know what you mean about dermabrasion. I had
  one 12 years ago and it left me with scars that I didn't have before. Scars
  that are STILL on my face...all these years later.

  If I were you, I would DEMAND that the doctor sees you and figures out a way
  to correct this situation. You put your faith in him and your safety in his
  hands and he screwed up. I mean, WHAT WAS HE THINKING doing your whole face
  when you were expecting that only PORTIONS of your face would be treated???

  I don't know about this, but can't you report this to the Medical Board or
  some organization? Isn't there some place you can go to for guidance or legal
  advice? I am sorry that I am not knowledgable in these areas but I DID want
  you to know that I am SORRY this happened to you. You are not alone...I am
  with you and I want this to be corrected for you. I am sending you my good
  thoughts and wishes and I HOPE that if someone else at this board knows what
  path you should pursue then they will let you know. God bless you and again, I
  empathize with you. Something very similar happened to me with that damn
  dermabrasion and if I could do it all over again I would have never had it
  done!!
 

 

  Adrianna Scheibner -- PK, 15:09:09 09/13/03 Sat

  Can anyone tell me if they have been treated by Dr. Adrianna Scheibner, or
  direct me to someone who has been, AND WHETHER SHE WAS ABLE TO CURE INDENTED
  SCARS WHEREIN THE DERMIS HAD BEEN DAMAGED?

  Thank you so much.
 

 

  Microcurrent -- PK, 08:28:40 09/13/03 Sat

  Microcurrent is supposedly a type of gentle electrical stimulation to the skin
  formerly used in sports injuries, which is now being used on soft tissue. HAs
  anyone used this to treat intended scars, does it cause collagen growth?

  ALSO, has anyone had scars caused by lasering which eventually filled in?
  Thanks everyone....
 

 

  Laser used to treat old scars, causes new scars -- PK, 08:15:31 09/13/03 Sat

  I AM IN A PANIC, I HOPE THAT SOMEONE CAN HELP ME.

  I just lost 40 minutes of typing a detailed message, so let me summarize
  quickly:

  I was treated by a Doctor "O" in Beverly Hills CA 5 weeks ago for afew scars
  on my nose, using his "Cool Laser" (NOT "Cool Touch") and this dr totally
  botched the job, lasering my WHOLE FACE even tho he was only authorized to
  laser just my nose and chin (some old acne scarring.)

  Healing is supposed to take only 1-2 days. Literally. All this literature and
  website states this. NOW, 5 weeks out, I have NEW intented scars ALL OVER MY
  FACE!! WHERE THERE WERE NONE! "O" GUARANTEED ME that there was "no way" in
  which this laser could cause new scarring, it is 90% non ablative, 10%
  ablative, akin to getting a sun burn. Yet he did an incredibly uneven and
  crappy job, I was brown and red and ozzing for a week, and now my face is
  covered with patches of skin wherein the top layer of skin has never grown
  back. My nose is 100 times worse than before, with sections gouged out, areas
  which look like the skin has been "melted" off my face, I am so incredibly
  angry and upset.

  The doctor and his staff have been systematically avoiding me and refusing to
  commuincate for 4 weeks now. THEY HAVE NOT RESPONDED TO ONE EMAIL FROM ME
  WHEREIN I AM DESPARATELY SEEKING THEIR ADVICE AS TO WHAT IS GOING ON WITH MY
  SKIN!!! When I then have to drive up to their offices (the "Epione Center")
  the dr has the audacity to tell me that he can't see what I'm talking about,
  just give it more time, skin can take up to 3 months to heal???

  Oh really? WELL, TWO LEADING PLASTIC SURGEONS WHOM I HAVE SINCE SEEN HAVE
  INFORMED ME THAT I HAVE BEEN IRREPARABLY HARMED, THAT THE DOCTOR PENETRATED
  INTO MY DERMIS AND THAT THE SKIN WILL NOT GROW BACK!

  AND their "Patient Manager" has the audacity to tell me that 1. i am making
  all this up or 2. that these new scars were there all along, i just never
  noticed them. How incredibly insulting.

  FUNNY, the new scars on my face correlate prefectly with teh areas where "O"
  lasered my face aggressively, as photos attest. Doesn't take a rocket
  scientist to figure out what has happened here, yet they refuse to take
  responsibility for the permanent damage caused to my skin. FOR A PROCEDURE
  WHICH WAS NOT AUTHORIZED FOR MY FULL FACE!

  "O" guaranteed that this laser could not cause new scarring. No one will
  answer my questions about what happened, what went wrong, and why my skin
  looks as such. They're just onto new paying patients, while I am left at home
  seeing new scars on my face every day.

  this is an atrocious wrong, and i write to not only warn others, but to
  solicit any input about the Epione Center and God forbid, similar experiences.
  PLEASE, TOO, IF ANYONE HAS HAD A SIMILAR EXPERIENCE, THERE OR ELSEWHERE,
  PLEASE TELL ME IF THEIR SKIN EVENTUALLY FILLED IN, OR WHETHER THERE IS
  ANYTHING I CAN DO!!

  Lastly, has anyone tried "microcurrent" to boost skin healing and cell
  regeneration?

  I am distraught beyond words: After a 2-year search to cure scars actually
  caused by a dermabrasion surgery, after untold hours of research and office
  visits, I put my self in the hands of a reputed expert, and he mars me for
  life. WHile the scars are not so noticeable from a distance, I see this uneven
  texture of my skin every time I look in the mirror, and the doctors who met
  with me had no trouble seeing this abraded texture and the new gouges now
  occupying the surface of my face. All by the guy who was supposed to help me.
  I am in an outrage.

  If anyone needs the full name of dr, email me privately.

  Please, someone help me.
 

 

  What does "REMOTE LINKING FORBIDDEN" mean?? -- John, 14:09:34 09/12/03 Fri

  Can someone please tell me what is wrong with this message board? Sometimes
  when I try to view it all I get is a message which is very vague to me:
  "Remote Linking Forbidden". What exactly does that mean?? I have no idea. I
  get it a lot, too. Thanks!
 

 

  Eric - about AcneEase -- Maya, 16:55:15 09/11/03 Thu

  I used those tablets around 2 years ago for several months - it did NOTHING.
  Save your money. The only thing that has cleared me of acne is a good diet
  (high protein, lots of veg, good oils, supplements, and low carbs/sugar.)
 

 

  Great success with Punch Excision 8 days ago! -- Maya, 15:23:02 09/11/03 Thu

  I had 12 ice pick scars punch excised, stitches came out 3 days ago - I have
  40-80% improvement on all of them (apart from 1 which didn't work) but really,
  I am very, very happy with the results and also expect to get continued
  improvement over the next couple of weeks.

  Still have around 15 ice picks to be excised - next appointment on the 8th of
  October.

  Oh, BTW, It is with Dr Chu (who many are getting Isoalgen with) that I had
  this procedure.

  Antz-Isolagen & Cityslicker -- cb, 21:24:46 09/08/03 Mon

  Antz:

  Thanks for posting your update on Isolagen - it's really nice to hear from
  someone going through the treatment. I followed this thread on the acne board but
  it's been pretty quiet lately. Can't wait till this is availble stateside.
  Heard next year sometime?

  Question, do you think you have had more improvement w/CO2 or Isolagen? Or
  maybe the improvement your seeing now is a combo of both?

  City-good to hear from you. Glad you're getting improvements. Good luck
  w/Exoderm @ Dr. Rullan's office. Hope that you see some improvements after
  that treatment. Are you going to do the oxygen treatments to cut down on the
  redness? Seemed like that part of the healing really bummed Kit. If he can cut
  the redness time down dramataically, that might be the way to go?

  Anyways let us know how this goes - very interested.

  I found a local office who has smoothbeam and he recommened 3 tx's of that and
  microderm. He said if I wasn't happy w/that I could try dermabrasion or CO2 -
  those both sound drastic based upon how he classified my scars - mild.
 

 

   Fat Transfer and Update -- Cityslicker, 08:28:34 09/08/03 Mon

  Cameron, I've had Fat Transfer done and I can tell you of my experience. I've
  now had 3 injections on my face and overall, extremely pleased that I had it
  done. I had 2 indents, one on each cheek that formed when I took a buff pad
  and under the theory that I could stimulate collagen underneath some scars,
  rubbed 2 raw spots, one on each cheek. I was told by Dr. Rappaport in NJ that
  I lost the structural integrity in those areas.

  As of to date, I've had N'Lite, Subscision, Fat Transfer, Micro-dermabrasion,
  Cooltouch II and Needling done. For me personally, the best treatment to date
  has been the Fat Transfer, Cooltouch II and Needling. I've been told that my
  scars are a level 1 to 2 on a scale of 3 with 1=mild, 2=moderate, and
  3=severe. The Fat Transfer only worked on actual indentations, it did nothing
  for the scars other than changed the lighting, I beleive, which does appear to
  make them look better. My indents were about as big as a dime in the center
  sunken in part to a larger nickle or so when you stood back and looked at a
  mirror from a distance.

  Overall improvement from all treatments is about 40-45% combined. It's hard to
  gauge improvement to some degree, as some smaller large pore marks have
  improved 80%, some larger pock marks maybe 20%, it runs the whole gammut of
  the scale. When you have a lot of scars of varying sizes some have really
  noticably improved with a marked differnce and other larger scars minimal.
  Still, I can see progress overall.

  The indents have had a very good result thus far, with about a 90%-95%
  improvement on my right side indent, and a 70% to 80% improvement on the left
  side. Though, when I stand back and look in the mirror I can see a fullness to
  my cheeks that I had never seen before (and I'm not talking about a fullness
  that I'm happy with.) I think my right side maybe a little over corrected, as
  I see a slight fullness ridge (high point) about 3 inches long right in the
  middle of my cheek. And I see a fullness to my left cheek but without the
  ridge and still a slight sunken spot where the indent has still shrunk back
  down. I had my 3rd treatment about a month ago and still appear to be losing
  some improvement slowly each week. Will have to wait several more months to
  determine final results.

  It's kinda a catch-22, I do believe there is an improvement that I'm happy
  with (and can live with), and at the same time, I can see the difference in
  the fullness that wasn't there before and I'm slightly bothered by this new
  look in my appearance. Though too, there is probably nobody that knows me (Mom
  and Dad and family included) that would notice what I'm even talking about.

  I've had 2 Cooltouch II treatments in the last 6 months. I'm also pleased with
  these treatments in shrinking my pores and the texture of my face. Some of my
  pores (smaller large pores) have significantly improved. But as I stated
  above, some of the larger pock marks, saucer scars, fingernail indentations
  and larger pore marks all experienced varying degree's of little improvement
  to good improvement.

  Cameron, In reference to your question about Fat Transfer leaving scars, yes,
  I do have 2 scars about 1/4 inch long each. One on each side of the abdomen.
  He used a canula about 1/4 inch wide and about 10-12 inches long. He numbed
  the area first and then with the tapered end, he just puncture's it into the
  skin and then begins to sunction out the Fat similiar to filling a long straw
  with butter. You have to move the canula up and down, in and out, slapping at
  the skin as it bottomed. He spent about 10-15 minutes on each side and it does
  begin to get uncomfortable and began to hurt. I justed gritted my teeth, but
  considered asking him to stop several times before he finally finished. It was
  not unbearable, but did get uncomfortable and painful for me. But I would do
  it again also. I told my 25 year old son about it and he looked at my scars
  (at night in the kitchen light) from about 3-4 feet away, and he was saying,
  where are your scars??? And I had to put my thumbs around them and pull up the
  skin so that he could see them. As I say, about 1/4 inch, not real noticable
  but would probably be seen some in the daylight outside, but not necessarily
  to the extent that anyone would notice enough to ask what happened??? But I
  will tell you, I wish I'd put a butterfly bandage on the places when I first
  had them done, as he did not stitch close or anything. And it hurt for about a
  month in those area's and occassionally, I still have Phantom Pain for a few
  seconds in area. But, I've never mentioned any of that to the Doctor and not
  really concerned about it. Only happens occassionally.

  He stated, you can have the fat removed from the abdomen, buttocks or thighs,
  and given those 3 area's, I'm sure you could find a well concealed area to
  take the fat from.

  I'm scheduled to have the Exoderm peel with Dr. Rullan Sept.29 in just a few
  weeks. I'm hopeful this treatment will be enough to give me the additional
  improvement that I'll be happy with. I'll keep you guys updated as I can. Take
  care everyone. :-) Cityslicker
 

 

  John -- MarcSheep, 14:04:30 09/07/03 Sun

  The procedure is not known in the tattoo world, it is better known in the
  permanent makeup field, under various pseduonyms - Needling, Needle Abrasion,
  Multitrepannic Collagen Actuation, Inkless Micropigmentation - Search on
  google and look for perm make up artists in the yellow pages - u will have
  more luck that way....

  Marc
 

 

  Isolagen 3rd injection this week -- Antz, 13:47:50 09/07/03 Sun

  Hi, I'm going for my 3rd Isolagen set of injections on Wednesday. I am now
  nearly one month post my 2nd set of injections and I've had about 25%
  improvement so far. My scars are filling up from the bottom and softening off
  so even though I still have all my scars they are looking shallower and
  shallower as the weeks go by. I'll post again 2 weeks after my next
injections.
 

 

  Fat Transfer - create scarring? -- Cameron, 12:17:39 09/07/03 Sun

  Does fat transfer create scarring or deformities at the place where the fat is
  taken from?
 

 

  Treatment Options are CONFUSING -- John, 12:05:13 09/07/03 Sun

  Needling...Smoothbeam...Subcision...Isolagen...I am so totally confused about
  what treatment options I should be pursuing. I did email a tattoo artist in
  Montclair, NJ about possibly doing needling on my scars and she emailed me
  back:
  John-
  What you are referring to is strictly dermatologist territory.
  Hopefully you'll find one who's done the procedure before & can show
  you before and after photos.

  So, that means that the procedure is so new that a lot of tatoo artists don't
  even know about it? I thought one had needling done BY a tattoo artist??

  How do I find a dermatolgist who will KNOW what combination of scar revision
  treatments I, personally, need? I am confused about who to see and what to do.
  I agree, by the way, that Acne.org is a little hard to navigate and it also
  seems too time consuming to check out all those threads, etc.

  I have depressed scars in my temple area which are probably the ones I hate
  the most. What should I consider doing about those types of scars? Needling?
  Or Smoothbeam? Thank you for any guidance anyone can give me.By the way, I am
  ECSTATIC for the people who post here who are getting excellent results. It's
  a real lift to see others so happy and grateful and it makes me think that
  maybe (just maybe) there is still hope for me yet, too.
 

 

  Last Time Honest -- MarcSheep, 10:58:25 09/07/03 Sun

  Sorry bout this - the woman who did my needling counted 74 done in total -
  under the flourescent light magnifier - so very few were missed except in the
  sun area - i still have maybe 15 scabs and swelling inn various places and I
  also know that over the next 3 months it will continue to improve! You all
  have to get this treatment/CURE.....
 

 

  Fuck It -- MarcSheep, 10:55:06 09/07/03 Sun

  Ive just looked again and realised how much difference there is - I canrnt
  believe im complainin, damn im too greedy - I dont know if I even need another
  session - now that would be greedy - I can live with 5-6 scars as most non
  acned peeps have a couple for one reason or another - If I was flawless maybe
  Id be more of a a freak........Im worried that the 8-9 scars still scabbed
  over on my right cheek wont be improved tho...only time will tell
 

 

  Results -- MarcSheep, 10:49:12 09/07/03 Sun

  Thanks Eric, What I have noticed tho today is that either my scars have
  responded 90-100% or else they havent responded at all - like the deep icepick
  between my eye brows.....Still the results remain very good, I just wish I
  didnt have the sunburn before....

  Marc
 

 

   To Marcsheep, Denise, VS & Steve: Kick-@$$ needling results! -- Eric,
  09:37:59 09/07/03 Sun

  Hi all-

  I've been watching the forum continuously for a while, but haven't posted...
  but I wanted to say congrats to Marcsheep on your great results... it's good
  to hear positive results from somebody who wasn't treated by Lilian. I assume
  the tattoo artist you went to is somebody in the UK... please correct me if I
  am mistaken.

  That being said, VS, I hope your scar needling at the Black N' Blue does
  eventually yield some good results results for you, but it's too bad that you
  used petrolatum instead of some superior healing products such as Emu Oil and
  copper peptide solutions. But there is no reason you can't repeat the
  procedure if you need to... nor is there any reason, as Denise mentioned, that
  improvement can't occur a little further into the future. I live in the bay
  area, so while the needling at the Black N' Blue is expensive, it is also the
  only well-known tattoo shop that I know if that performs this procedure in San
  Francisco. Could you please tell me which tattoo artist at the Black N' Blue
  needled your scars? The older positive posts all mentioned Idexa as being
  their tattoo artist... anyway, best of luck to you.

  Steve!! How's it going with you, man? Last I heard you were getting needling
  done and also preparing for further Exoderm touch-ups from the famous Dr.
  Rullan! How is your skin doing these days! I think last I read, you were
  getting positive results with your second needling using CP serum and emu oil!
  Right on man! Please update us on how things are going with you today...

  Denise- You are one of the pioneers at spreading the word of this famous
  procedure here on Voy, and also have come up with this great skin care regime
  to get it rolling... so it is always good to hear from you! I think the
  Retin-A/copper/emu oil combo has a lot to do with your great results, as well
  as having a skilled artist work on your face. I'm still fighting acne on this
  end, have been on B-5 for a little over 4 months, and I don't get cysts
  anymore but still have small annoying inflammatory blemishes. I decided to
  knock off the Derma Cleanse pills, however, I am sticking with their cleanser
  and their facial gel, because it is a great treatment for acne... in
  combination with the B-5 really reduces the redness and level of inflammation.
  I read about another herbal product called AcnEase on the Internet, this one
  is actually tested clinically in China and seems to have a very high success
  rate similar to Accutane... with much faster response times than B-5...
  although I can take the B-5 concurrently with it. So I am hoping that this
  combination therapy approach will get rid of the remnants of my acne. Please
  let me know if you have tried AcnEase before, I like to get other testimonials
  than the ones posted on the website. So to summarize, my acne is better but
  not yet gone... and I really would want to use SmoothBeam as a last resort for
  acne because it only seems to address the symptoms, not the underlying
  cause... and believe me, from using Accutane, there is nothing worse than
  having clear, acne-free skin for six months and then back to oily skin and
  breaking out again with a vengeance! Please let us also know what your status
  is and if you will choose to have another needling procedure done.

  Best of luck to all, and it's great to hear good news! The Lord smiles upon
  us...

  -Eric
 

 

  Needling Results -- MarcSheep, 01:37:57 09/07/03 Sun

Its been 3 days since my needling and the scabs are
  almost all of....The results - well i would estimate 90-100% improvement in
  all of the scars I had needled - Some were missed because I had sunburn - Been
  using a different cp solution that the ski bio one and some
  moisturiser/sunblock combo by agera medical products - I had microdermabrasion
  1 week before the needling and this definately helped - but the new skin burnt
  easily.....I dunno if I want a second session I now have maybe 5 or 6
  noticable scars remaining and a total of around 20 that only I notice - There
  is no swelling now after 3 days but im still treating my skin very gently....

  Now - Ive learnt a couple of things here - 1)age is very important - of the
  person and the scars - because im young and the scars are <1 yr old theyve
  healed dramatically - the scabs fall off and fresh normal skin is there.
  2)Good aftercare is essential 3)scars dont have to scab to improve 4)All scars
  responded well from my shallow icepicks to my rolling scars and enlarged pore
  type ones. 5)the microderm the week before definately helped....

  Thats about all i can manage for now, feel free to ask ne questions ill be
  around a lot longer - onto the scars on my back and chest now.

  GoodLuck

  Marc
 

 

   Michel -- Denise1, 23:16:54 09/06/03 Sat

  The reason I recommended you go there was for several reasons. The first and
  most important one is that it's hard to tell you what to do without you having
  an idea of what type of scars you have, if you've already tried other scar
  treatments, etc.....

  The problem is that different types of scars need different types of
  treatments. No one here can just arbitrarily tell you what needs to be done.
  It's much better for people to be pro-active and read about what's available,
  and learn on their own what type of treatment works for what type of scar.
  That way they can ask specific questions about their particular scar type. I'm
  not sure what you found difficult about the site I recommended, it's much
  easier in terms of gaining knowledge and information, and the format is easy
  as each treatment gets it's own thread. That way, you can read for yourself
  from people who are being treated, or have been treated in various scar
  treatments. There are quite a few people there at that scar board that live in
  the UK and have been and are being successfully treated with various scar
  treatments.

  If you want to wait here, perhaps Marcsheep or Maya can help you if they know
  what type of scars you have. Other than that, I'd suggest you inform yourself
  and that way you can know what direction to go into. There are various "scar
  experts" that utilize many, many, many different types of treatment options.

  It's most helpful to the uninformed to really do their own research and ask
  questions that are related to their own scars. Otherwise, it's hard for anyone
  to give you helpful advice.
 

 

   Went to the board -- Michel, 20:51:30 09/06/03 Sat

  I took a look at the acne.org scar site and found it difficult and time
  consuming to navigate. I prefer it here even though replies can be slow.
 

 

  TCA Cross -- Anna, 19:11:34 09/05/03 Fri

  Ariel,

  If you can't find a doctor who does the TCA Cross treatment advise them the
  article detailing it is in the November 2002 Journal for Dermatologic Surgery.
  Here is a link to view the abstract:

  http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/servlet/useragent?func=synergy&synergyAction=showAbstract&doi=10.1046/j.1524-4725.2002.02095.x

  You have to pay $19.00 online to view the whole thing. My guess is any PS or
  derm already subscribes.

  Good Luck, Anna
 

 

   PLEASE SOMEONE HELP !!!! -- Mel (U.K), 18:45:22 09/05/03 Fri

  I am totally despairing !!!!!
  I am still suffering now with acne at the age of 39, right from 16 years ago.
  I suffered with cystic acne and was given roaccutane, I did have largish spots
  which has left me with terrible scars !!! I feel I cant go out or do anything
  some days as I am fearing other peoples response and feel that they are
  laughing/staring/talking about and at me, with no factual evidence !!!!!
  I reallllly do have a hard time with relationships, and I cant/dont want to
  talk much as I am so depressed and upset.
  I am afraid of Men, but women and children scare me too!!!!
  It REALLY Is preventing me getting on with my life and all that that entails,
  i.e work, children etc. I FEEL SO ALONE and not enjoying myself much for fear
  of the above. I am mortified and extremely upset as I write this, as I have
  seen 3 cosmetic surgeons who say they cant help me either !!! I feel as though
  I have no direction or purpose sometimes and this hurts ! I am extremely
  self-concious around men as we live in an image concious society and feel I
  dont match the norm !
  Ive tried psycotherapy and antidepressants which havnt benefitted me much. I
  would like to know more about Body Dysmorphic Disorder and wether I could be
  suffering. I seem to have an inability to cope !!!!!!

  I would like to hear from ANYONE about things that REALLY work on scars,and
  other treatments and experiences !!!!!
  U.S.A or Any Other person !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

 

  my experience with glycolic peel -- julie, 18:08:14 09/05/03 Fri

  i burned the corners of my mouth/chin area recently with 20% glycolic peel.
  when applied, it didn't sting or anything so i thought it would be okay to
  keep dabbing more and rubbing it in which was a mistake and fortunately the
  burn wounds are healing without leaving any scars! my face is absolutely clear
  (currently) to begin with and i guess it was just bdd which made me do all
  sort of things to my skin. i've always had bad skin though, and even though it
  is so much better now, i still feel it. i think the best thing for me, is to
  not use so much cleanser and learn to keep calm. the strangest thing is how i
  managed to get rid of/keep away from breakouts by consuming tons of milk
  yoghurt (5cups) a day.

  anyway, ALWAYS do a test patch before applying acid to your face! do not
  exfoliate too much because your skin might be thin and raw and you are just
  slowing the healing process and i think for me, it is true that burn scars
  heals faster than acne scars.

  i can identify with the sadness that comes with having acne etc, even though
  my skin is comepletely clear without holes and much scars, in the past i have
  hidden in my room for over a year without coming out because i thought i was
  hideous. my hands and face is too "clean".

  everything heals in time. and bad skin will heal but i still feel like bad
  skin all the time.

  julie (20)

  PS: http://larachem.com/ here is where i bought my glycolic acid, i believe it
  is the cheapest online and you could ask for a sample of another bottle with
  lower percent glycolic acid. DO A TEST PATCH! and DO NOT RUB IN! and DO NOT
  OVERUSE- it might trigger rosacea! and might be your skin is not as bad as you
  think.
 

 

  my experience with glycolic peel -- julie, 18:06:49 09/05/03 Fri

  i burned the corners of my mouth/chin area recently with 20% glycolic peel.
  when applied, it didn't sting or anything so i thought it would be okay to
  keep dabbing more and rubbing it in which was a mistake and fortunately the
  burn wounds are healing without leaving any scars! my face is absolutely clear
  (currently) to begin with and i guess it was just bdd which made me do all
  sort of things to my skin. i've always had bad skin though, and even though it
  is so much better now, i still feel it. i think the best thing for me, is to
  not use so much cleanser and learn to keep calm. the strangest thing is how i
  managed to get rid of/keep away from breakouts by consuming tons of milk
  yoghurt (5cups) a day.

  anyway, ALWAYS do a test patch before applying acid to your face! do not
  exfoliate too much because your skin might be thin and raw and you are just
  slowing the healing process and i think for me, it is true that burn scars
  heals faster than acne scars.

  i can identify with the sadness that comes with having acne etc, even though
  my skin is comepletely clear without holes and much scars, in the past i have
  hidden in my room for over a year without coming out because i thought i was
  hideous. my hands and face is too "clean".

  everything heals in time. and bad skin will heal but i still feel like bad
  skin all the time.

  julie (20)

  PS: http://larachem.com/ here is where i bought my glycolic acid, i believe it
  is the cheapest online and you could ask for a sample of another bottle with
  lower percent glycolic acid. DO A TEST PATCH! and DO NOT RUB IN! and DO NOT
  OVERUSE- it might trigger rosacea! and might be your skin is not as bad as you
  think.
 

 

  needling -- ariel, 10:40:56 09/05/03 Fri

  Can someone recommend a good experienced needler near or around Los Angeles
  area or a Doctor whom is using the tca cross method for ice pick scars, which
  is what I mainly have on my cheeks. I live in the San Gabriel Valley area.
  Also, where can I find the cp serums everyone talks about. Thank you.

  Ariel
 

 

  OH my god Dr Pileset in Irvine -- vs, 04:37:57 09/05/03 Fri

  Oh wow you guys.. Remember that Dr Pilest who emailed me telling me I had done
  enough to my face from Irvine. Well he just called me tonight on the phone,
  outa the blue. Was totally unexpected, he was being nice. He told me to come
  in on monday and see him, unfortunately I cant go to irvine this monday. But
  i'm going to call his office tomorrow and make an apt for another monday.

  Do you guys think he found this voy forum and read what we wrote about him and
  he felt guilty and bad?

  Either way i'm so glad he called me, it was a shocking surprise. I feel like
  theres hope now! He has a smoothbeam machine and he said his co worker named
  dr Saied or something like that does skin sanding and other stuff. Ok so i'll
  keep everyone informed in here!
 

 

  Marcsheep/TGF Beta 3 -- Anna, 16:32:25 09/03/03 Wed

  Marcsheep,
  Here is the link to an article Professor Ferguson wrote back in 1995. The
  pictures shown are of incisional wounds on the backs of rats and they are
  pretty impressive. The paper is 18 pages long and rather technical. Very
  exciting though!!
  Anna

  http://jcs.biologists.org/cgi/reprint/108/3/985.pdf
 

 

  Anna -- MarcSheep, 15:32:21 09/03/03 Wed

  I agree, this is very exciting indeed - though no pictures exist as
  yet......But it is exciting not just for us, but for people with severe trauma
  and burn scars which are infinately worse.......Fingers crossed.

  Marc
 

 

  Marcsheep/TGF Beta 3 -- Anna, 00:25:14 09/03/03 Wed

  Hi Marcsheep,
  I think it would/could, but there is a lot to the whole understanding of the
  various functions the different factors play. From what I can discern the
  application of TGF Beta 3 would be more helpful in the prevention of
  hypertrophic scars. I can't find anything definite which states how it would
  work in preventing depressed/atrophic scars. It would be so great if it were
  just that easy, and the thing is that I don't know that it isn't.

  Different Dr. Ferguson though, otherwise it would be so cool and you could
  just ask him at your appointment. I would ask your doctor if he knows of any
  of the research that is being done by Renovo. From the information I have read
  the scar prevention treatment could be used after some type of scar revision
  where the old scar tissue is removed by whatever means. You do live in the UK
  don't you? Because Renovo is conducting Phase I clinical trials in Manchester.
  Maybe you could e-mail them.

  I have so much hope in this potential procedure, although they estimate the
  earliest the products would be available would be three years.

  My best,
  Anna
 

 

  For Simone re Cleo Facial System -- Just Me, 23:19:40 09/02/03 Tue

  Hi Simone - this is a real quickie. I use the Cleo Facial System and have been
  daily for about 6 months, maybe 7 now. It's role is mainly to delay the signs
  of aging though I feel that it has helped my skin condition as "Essential
  Muscles Groups will tighten. The first noticeable reaction is in the
  complexion. Increased blood flow to the corpuscles, bring extra healing
  powers, extra nutrition, vitamins and minerals to the area, nurishing
  muscles." etc .. unquote ....I was just sharing what I felt was working for
  me. The Cleo System is fairly expensive though I personally do feel my skin
  condition has improved as I was saying to Rianne, I'm convinced that my acne
  scars are less noticeable as the skin is tightening up which means that the
  scars are being pulled etc so it doesn't look as indented if that makes sense.
  Though Simone, it's just my personal experience.

  I hope that helps a little, if at all. Using the cleo system for the first
  time will bring out spots for a while as it flushes out the toxins in the skin
  etc. As said before the cleo facial system doesn't claim to help acne / scars
  etc though for me personally having used it for 6 months or so daily really do
  feel it's helped my skin and my scars are less noticeable and is tighter etc
  ... each person is different.

  Best wishes
  Just Me
 

 

  Anna (again) -- MarcSheep, 23:02:27 09/02/03 Tue

  Do you think anna that it is possible that introducing an excess of factor TGF
  Beta 3 into the active wound sites following an invasive procedure like
  dermabrasion while also inhibiting TGF factors 1 + 2 then scarring can be
  eliminated as complete wound healing will result ?

  Just a thought....

  Marc
 

 

  Anna -- MarcSheep, 22:03:15 09/02/03 Tue

  Interesting Anna.....Professor Ferguson isnt Jim Ferguson of Dundee University
  is he ? I have an appointment with him....

  Marc
 

 

  Srina -- Anna, 21:37:13 09/02/03 Tue

  Srina,
  Thank you for your update. To e-mail me you can either link to my name or
  respond to the e-mail I sent you. Your results sound so impressive. You must
  be thrilled!!

  Congratulations!
  Anna
 

 

  Scarring/Marcsheep -- Anna, 20:16:09 09/02/03 Tue

  Marcsheep,

  You are right when it comes to the bodies reaction to scarring. Scarring is an
  inflammatory response. I have been doing a lot of reading regarding the
  research on the mechanism of scarring and in particular the research that is
  being done by Professor Ferguson of Renovo Corporation and Paul Martin of
  Briston University, both in the UK. The studies all indicate that of the three
  TGF Beta factors, 1, 2, and 3, in the early fetal environment TGF Beta 3 has
  the greatest dominance. (Fetuses heal without scarring.) Near the end of fetal
  development TGF Beta 1 seems to gain dominance and, as it is highly
  inflammatory, is indicted in the formation of scar tissue. They are doing
  studies showing great promise with the injection of TGF Beta 3 into the wound
  site at the time of surgical or other injury. TGF Beta 3 neuralizes the
  scarring influence of TGF Beta 1 and TGF Beta 2.

  Interestingly, another agent that seems to suppress TGF Beta 1 and TGF Beta 2
  is the application (via injection or topically) Mannose 6 Phosphate. Mannose 6
  Phosphate occurs naturally in Aloe Vera.

  Anna
 

 

  Great Acne Medicine -- vs, 17:39:18 09/02/03 Tue

  Hey.. This isn't about scars but acne. Theres something called benzaclin...
  which is 5% percent benzoil peroxide and I think 10% clindomicyin antibitic.
  Its mixed together and sold as benzaclyn. You need a perscription for it, and
  I think costco pharmacy sales it for 60 bucks. This stuff works so good.
  Everytime I get a zit, I put some on it, the next day its practically gone.
  With Retin A 1 percent it would take me like 2 weeks to get rid of the same
  big fat honker of a zit.

  And it doesn't seem to promote scarring as easily.

  But here are a few great tips. The package and pharmacist tells you to throw
  the stuff away after 2 months, keep it in your fridge and it lasts a long long
  time. Also 60 bucks for a very small bottle of the stuff is way too expensive.
  So I started making my own. I have a perscription for just Cleocin T
  (clindomycin) alone, which i pay 10 bucks a bottle for.. then mix it with my
  own benzoil peroxide gel 5% that I buy from Kaiser Pharmacy without a
  perscription. I mix the two together, and boom I made my own Benzaclin for a
  fraction of the cost. Seems to work just as good for me !

  This is great stuff to prevent more scars. In the past I hated benzoil
  peroxide, always made me break out even worse. But the combination with
  clindomycin really works. Go get a perscription for this!
 

 

  Skin resurfacing co2 (ablative) -- srina, 10:45:02 09/02/03 Tue

  Anna Kellogg
  This is Srina, I have been trying to email u. Pls reconfirm your email
  address.In regard to the skin resurfacing, I am using the ablative co2 skin
  resurfacing.
  I give it try (in April 2003) on small area my nose only where there are
  pitted scars, so far its has heal to 80% some even 90% and no extra scars
  occured. For your information I have done the skin resurfacing on my two
  cheeks two weeks ago. Will keep u inform about the out come
  Rdgs
 

 

  Mary -- MarcSheep, 11:04:21 09/01/03 Mon

  Hi Mary, the simplest terms in which I can put this are that when your skin is
  damaged by acne, your body is rushed, it isnt concerned about cosmetic
  appearance rather it is just trying to close the wound and stop infection,
  hence scars develop from the formation of connective tissue, which tethers
  itself to the dermis (below the skin) and prevents collagen from making it
  able to rise up. Scar treatments aim to break up the connective tissue and
  stimulate the formation of new collagen underneath the skin to raise it up.

  FYI - At present deep scars cannot be completely removed, the can be made
  virtually invisible however, only shallow to moderate scars can be completely
  resolved at present...

  Hope this helps

  MarcSheep
 

 

  For Just Me Cleo System -- Simone, 07:57:35 09/01/03 Mon

  Just Me,

  Can you please advise how you use these Cleo Products and which products you
  actually use and how and when they are applied as the website to me is a
  little confusing.

  Any help would be appreciated.
 

 

  How does it work? -- Mary, 04:56:52 09/01/03 Mon

  Can someone please explain to me why if your skin never healed properly after
  a trauma/wound, ie acne, and therefore produced a scar, why it should heal
  proeprly after another trauma/wound such as laser or dermabrasion???? Thanks.
 

 

   Hi John -- Just Me [Moderator], 23:22:21 08/31/03 Sun

  Hi John

  I can emphathise with how you feel as I'm sure many others here can too. I've
  personally had acne and acne scars for 26 years now (I'm in my late 30s now)
  and though my skin is free of acne now (thankfully) I still have the remains
  of the acne scars albeit they are fading thankfully again. From my years of
  experience of people staring which I still find incredibly upsetting as I
  could have only one acne and a girl I know and work with will just focus on
  the acne and will scan my whole face each time we speak which I find very
  upsetting and knocks me for six cos it's like what's up with her? Surely it's
  me as a person she should be interested in and not how my skin condition is as
  she even does that ie stare at my whole face even when I don't have any acne
  just to check out my skin complexion and even my family do that; though
  thankfully my family and friends have been commenting lately how wonderful my
  skin is looking which is a real boost.

  Anyway to answer your question from my personal experience what I've learnt
  from someone at work is to consider these people that stare at us
  inconsiderately, as 'special' people ie like people who have a 'disability'
  and in their case it's a lack of consideration of feelings etc and somehow for
  me it helped cos it then became her problem and I was the 'ok' person. If your
  acne and scarring is really bad and you're already eating up inside loads I'm
  not sure how much the above will help - maybe it will at some point - it's a
  thought; and hopefully others will share more as well. I just also learnt to
  try and blot her out whenever she was doing it ie staring at my whole face
  when we're talking (which I really find very rude) and I know she doesn't mean
  to cos she's a really nice person.

  As acne sufferers and scar sufferers we are certainly more considerate than
  most people. There's a guy in the office currently who has red blotches all
  over his face and whenever I have to deal with him I make sure that I look at
  the paperwork etc and/or into his eyes etc and don't look at his blotches -
  though he seems okay about it all, ie picking up his energy he doesn't seem
  that bothered; whereas whenever I have a huge acne on my face it feels like
  it's a volcano and the whole world can see it. A zit is nothing; but an acne
  can sometimes be like the size of a 50p coin and it's huge - just like a
  volcano and it does get really upsetting when people stop me and ask me what's
  that on my face. I'm so glad I haven't had to go through that for a long while
  now and that the long hours i go through daily in my skin routine are paying
  off. I am also using the Cleo Facial System http://www.club-cleo.com which
  though is not for acne I'm sure helps in stimulating the skin cell renewal
  etc. I've been using the cleo facial system daily now for over 6 months and
  mainly to help with signs of aging though I'm sure it really helps as well
  with the tone of my skin.

  I hope I was able to help if a little. We're all here to support each other
  and though people may not respond it doesn't mean they're not listening ....
  be strong John!

  Just Me
 

 

  Can't someone advise me on this? -- John, 13:25:21 08/31/03 Sun

  Hi,
  I'm new to the board and I plan to be active and to try to help any way I can.
  Sometimes all we need is an ear and a few kind words. Well, I need that now.
  Can someone give me some advice on my post from last week? I guess it fell
  through the cracks... Thanks very much.
  My hope for ALL OF US is that whatever corrective treatment each one of us
  pursues, WILL WORK. Thanks-
  John

  Eye Contact -- John, 18:25:36 08/26/03 Tue

  The good will and camaraderie here really warms my heart and I wish we all had
  beautiful, scar-free skin. However, since that, unfortunately, is not the
  case, can I please ask for advice on what to do when people who are talking to
  me don't make eye contact with me and instead focus on my facial scars? This
  never fails to unnerve me and sometimes it makes me want to just become a
  total recluse. When I speak to other people, I ALWAYS make eye contact with
  them (and I make sure I keep the gaze constant, too.) I NEVER focus on
  another's facial flaws (if they have any, that is). I use their name a lot
  when I speak to them and I look them in the eyes because I think it's
  important to try to make people feel comfortable when you talk to them, if
  possible. Why don't others feel the same way? When I'm in the daylight and my
  scars are out there for all to see and somewone stares at them instead of my
  perfectly nice, brown eyes, it makes me so uncomfortable and unhappy I want to
  go inside, shut the door and never go outside out again! Can someone please
  give me some advice on how to handle a situation like this?

  P.S. I tried to investigate needling, here in northeast NJ, to no avail. I
  emailed a very famous local tattoo artist named Shotsie (he supposedly did
  many of Cher's tattoos) but he never got back to me....Now I don't know
  whether I should keep trying to pursue needling, or find someone to use the
  Smoothbeam on my face. I feel like SOMETHING has to be done, though...and
  soon. I'm really depressed....especially with the "staring". It seems kind of
  cruel. I mean, I CAN'T HELP IT that I have these scars....I did everything I
  was supposed to, tried everything I could, but I still got them. And in a way,
  it's true, they reach right down to my soul.....
 

 

  Hi Antz and Thanks -- John, 02:52:08 08/31/03 Sun

  Antz,

  Please keep us posted as this could be a fantasic treatment for all of us. How
  much improvement would you say you have had from the Isolagen and is Doctor
  Chu the man performing your treatment.

  Thanks I really appreciate your updates.
 

 

   ISOLAGEN -- Antz, 13:41:31 08/30/03 Sat

  Just wanted to mention that I'm nearly 3 weeks post my 2nd set of Isolagen
  injections and this treatment is definitely working well. I will keep you
  posted.

  :)
 

 

  VS -- Steve, 23:14:22 08/29/03 Fri

  Vs, The fact is Dr. Rullan doesnt know you or your real name.. You dont have
  to tell him that it was you on Voy talking badly about exoderm... And even if
  you did, Dr. Rullan im sure will look past that.. :)..

  Just visit him and see if you like what he recommends
 

 

  LOL alice -- vs, 21:47:01 08/29/03 Fri

  LOL Alice thanks :)
  That totally made me laugh!

  You know whats funny about his website at www.totaldermatology.com His website
  says

  • A caring atmosphere: We take time to listen and fully answer your questions.

  • Educational support: A well informed patient is an asset to successful
  treatment and prevention. We provide you with an explanation of your diagnosis
  and treatment options.

  Ya right whatever-- thats all lies.
 

 

  TO VS -- Alice, 15:55:20 08/29/03 Fri

  VS,
  If you want to toilet paper "doctor" Pilest's house, egg his car, soap his
  windows, make prank phone calls, hand out "informational flyers" in front of
  his office, etc., I think we could get together a group. I am so sorry he was
  such a jerk and sorry you are feeling badly. I have been there myself. Your
  situtation is NOT hopeless, but that doctor is. - Alice
 

 

  I feel like lt today -- vs, 10:02:36 08/29/03 Fri

  well its 2 am, and I cant sleep, I been crying and frustrated all day. I
  totally feel LT's pain.

  Steve. I would go see dr rullan, but after basically telling him I think i
  think his exoderm procedure sucks, I doubt he wants to see me.

  :( I hope I get this outa my mind and fall asleep, Even crying my self to
  sleep is not working tonight.
 

 

  VS -- Steve, 07:25:33 08/29/03 Fri

  Vs, You should seriously consider Dr. Rullan.. although he doesnt have
  smoothbeam, if really is as effective as some say, he's the type of Dr who
  wouldnt hesitate in purchasing one..

  Rullan is by far the most sincere Dr. i have come across..
 

 

  correction -- vs, 04:42:53 08/29/03 Fri

  Dr pilest is from Irvine, CA not encinatas ca. sorry

  Anyways his email has been ringing through my head all day, it was so cold.
  I'm going to prove him and every other jerk dr like him wrong. There has to be
  a dr that cares. one must exist.
 

 

  Helpful tips to prevent and treat acne -- Port Wine Stain, 04:02:54 08/29/03
  Fri

  Please click on my link for some helpful tips and tricks to prevent and treat
  acne.

  http://www.myportwinestain.com/acne.htm
 

 

  re: Dr. Pilest -- John, 23:30:35 08/28/03 Thu

  What an uncaring JERK that doctor is. vs, I'm sorry he sent you such a cold
  and abrupt email. Oh, believe me, I KNOW there are MANY other doctors out
  there just like him...I've met quite a few myself. Please don't give up. Just
  keep trying to find a COMPASSIONATE physician who will take you and your
  concerns more seriously. Damn that doctor, anyway...and all the others like
  him, too.
 

 

  vs -- hopeful, 23:00:54 08/28/03 Thu

  Cheer up Vs, now we all know what kind of soul that
  DR PILEST FROM ENCINATAS CALIFORNIA has :)

  One day he'll do a google search for his name and karma will catch up to him
  and bite him in the hiny.
 

 

  Very hard day -- vs, 21:49:50 08/28/03 Thu

  Today has been so extremely hard on me. I'm so sad and I cant stop crying. I
  recieved an email reply from a dr that just totally broke my heart. I had
  emailed Dr Pilest from Encinatas california. He has a smoothbeam laser, and I
  emailed him telling him I am interested in smoothbeam along with another
  subcision. I told him everything I had done to my skin already. I wait a week
  for his email reply, and he replies with the following

  --- Dr Pilest wrote:
  Hello,
  I think that you already have done a lot.
  Good luck

  I dont know why but that broke my heart. I felt like he was basically saying
  "i cant do shit for you nor do i care, so live with your scarred face and good
  luck"

  I feel so alone and sad. I broke in tears reading his reply, dont these drs
  have feelings.
 

 

   LT -- MarcSheep, 18:08:28 08/28/03 Thu

  If you ever need to talk LT then e-mail me...Just click my name above...I can
  really identify with your situation and hope that you feel better soon.

  Marc
 

 

  me again -- LT, 16:32:59 08/28/03 Thu

  I just wanted to thank you for the replies. I can't really say more now. I
  will come back soon.
 

 

  support group meeting potluck BBQ Rockville,MD -- Greg, 15:00:05 08/28/03 Thu

  hey guys,
  we are having a "meeting" this Saturday at 4PM if you are still in town!

  here's the details:

  POTLUCK BBQ IN NANCY'S BACKYARD

  WHEN: This Saturday August 30th 4PM

  WHY: to stare at each other's scars in natural sunlight...God's version of
  overhead fluorescent lighting:-)

  WHERE: 10-1/2 Laird Street
  Rockville, MD 20850
  From I-270, take exit 6-A Route 28(W. Montgomery Ave.) East towards
  Rockville…bear right…left at 1st light (Laird St)…3rd house on left- peach
  colored house with dark green shutters-address on house is actually "10 Laird
  St" ..park on the street, walk down the alley at the "NO OUTLET" sign and go
  into backyard-see the yellow VW bug and the "10-1/2" address number…Nancy will
  be the crazy lady waving the spatula & barking orders…

  Please RSVP with what you can bring- we got charcoal & 17 pounds of potato
  salad so that's covered…

  You DO NOT have to bring anything- you can count yourself as an item:-)

  See ya there!

  Greg 301-718-0952
 

 

  LT -- Hopeful, 04:28:27 08/27/03 Wed

  Well suicide was always on my mind but not as much these days. During the
  darkest hours of my life I prayed for guidance from God and a couple of months
  later a couple of Jehovah's Witnesses came knocking at my door.
  They changed the way I view life and this world. I know Jehovah's Witnesses
  gets mocked on all the time in the movies but they are truly the most
  compassionate group of people I've ever known. So if you or anyone else is
  feeling down and needs spiritual guidance i suggest you talk to these people,
  its up to you. You can find contacts on watchtower.org
  All the best
 

 

  LT -- Hopeful, 04:23:39 08/27/03 Wed

  Well suicide was always on my mind but not as much these days. During the
  darkest hours of my life I prayed for guidance from God and a couple of months
  later a couple of Jehovah's Witnesses came knocking at my door.
  They changed the way I view life and this world. I know Jehovah's Witnesses
  gets mocked on all the time but they are truly the most compassionate group of
  people I've ever known. So if your feeling down i suggest you talk to these
  people, its up to you. You can find contacts on watchtower.org
  All the best
 

 

  Eye Contact -- John, 18:25:36 08/26/03 Tue

  The good will and camaraderie here really warms my heart and I wish we all had
  beautiful, scar-free skin. However, since that, unfortunately, is not the
  case, can I please ask for advice on what to do when people who are talking to
  me don't make eye contact with me and instead focus on my facial scars? This
  never fails to unnerve me and sometimes it makes me want to just become a
  total recluse. When I speak to other people, I ALWAYS make eye contact with
  them (and I make sure I keep the gaze constant, too.) I NEVER focus on
  another's facial flaws (if they have any, that is). I use their name a lot
  when I speak to them and I look them in the eyes because I think it's
  important to try to make people feel comfortable when you talk to them, if
  possible. Why don't others feel the same way? When I'm in the daylight and my
  scars are out there for all to see and somewone stares at them instead of my
  perfectly nice, brown eyes, it makes me so uncomfortable and unhappy I want to
  go inside, shut the door and never go outside out again! Can someone please
  give me some advice on how to handle a situation like this?

  P.S. I tried to investigate needling, here in northeast NJ, to no avail. I
  emailed a very famous local tattoo artist named Shotsie (he supposedly did
  many of Cher's tattoos) but he never got back to me....Now I don't know
  whether I should keep trying to pursue needling, or find someone to use the
  Smoothbeam on my face. I feel like SOMETHING has to be done, though...and
  soon. I'm really depressed....especially with the "staring". It seems kind of
  cruel. I mean, I CAN'T HELP IT that I have these scars....I did everything I
  was supposed to, tried everything I could, but I still got them. And in a way,
  it's true, they reach right down to my soul.....
 

 

  My post disappeared -- vs, 02:34:04 08/26/03 Tue

  this is weird, I posted the email that Dr. Kaminer had sent me earlier today,
  and I just came back online and the post is missing, what the heck?
 

 

  VS /Dr. Kaminer -- JW, 02:06:49 08/26/03 Tue

  I was a patient of Dr. Kaminer's. On your initial visit he spends a lot of
  time with you and he answers all of your questions. You don't feel rushed. He
  is very friendly and he is easy to talk to. He really cares. He is an expert
  at subcision. He has performed it hundreds of times. He performed two
  subcisions on me. I was very happy with the results. He co-authored a paper on
  acne scar treatments. He also does excision and laser resurfacing. He has Cool
  Touch 2 and he does the treatments himself. He says that many of his patients
  are quite pleased in the improvement in their acne scars from CT 2. Maybe
  because he actually does the CT 2 treatments his patients get better results.
  I wholeheartedly recommend him to anyone living in the Northeast or anyone
  willing to travel. He is also knowledgeable on other treatments and he will
  give you his opinion.
 

 

  Regarding Dr. Kaminer-Boston -- Bryan, 01:46:37 08/26/03 Tue

  I have met with Dr. Kaminer regarding my scars and he was very confident he
  could improve them through subcision. He is very well known in the Boston
  area. I felt very comfortable with him and what he said he could do to fix my
  scars. He evaluates your scars first to determine if they're rolling type
  scars, boxcar type, or icepick type. Then he basically knows the best approach
  from there. When I met with him he was associate professor at Harvard, but I
  believe now he's at Dartmouth (spelling?). He has he own clinic with other
  Boston docs. called Skincare Physicians of Chestnut Hill. That's right outside
  Boston. I'm from NC and basically took a trip to see the guy. I have not had
  anything done yet, so I can't speak from a real patients perspective, but the
  guy is good I know. His number 617-731-1600. Or just type his name in a search
  engine. There's enough good info. out there about him if you look. Good luck
  to you..and I do have his email if you need it. Take care..
 

 

  Marc's filler website -- Poohman, 01:26:46 08/26/03 Tue

  I think Marc mispelled the web address for the clinic he went to, I think it
  should be clinicestetica.com.

  The filler he was talking about was probably bio-alcamid.

  Can any tell if this is any different then aquamid?