Acne Scar Treatments Archive 4
Return to the Acne Support Group in Cyberspace home pageBay Area Support Group -- vs, 20:17:38 08/25/03 Mon
Hey, I wanna know how many of you are from the bay area! I want to start a
support group, if your from the bay area and willing to meet in person for
support group meetings then email me So I can get an idea of how many people
would come! sanjoseskin@yahoo.comI'm guessing we could have the meetings at someones house, or maybe at a pizza
parlor, or somewhere more discreet so strangers wouldnt see us stairing at
eachothers scars and talking about scars.Does this sound like a good idea to anyone else?
TO LT -- greg, 13:56:01 08/25/03 Mon
hey LT,
no way girl!- this is a fixable situation!!#1-start a real-life support group in your town so you have shoulders to cry
on(we have 1 here in Wash,D.C. and it makes all the difference-even had a few
romances blossom from our meetings;-)
#2-go see some docs and start fixing your face-
subcision/needling/excision/dermabrasion/etc....lots of options out there!
#3-no man will have you?? huh? what??...the girls in my support group are
gorgeous-scars & all- but they are like you- they think men see *only* the
scars...it's distorted thinking- body dysmorphic disorder-people with facial
scars think it's the defining feature- it is not!-it's like the 10th thing
down the list that men notice/care about !now go start your support group, go see some docs, and stop talking about
ending your life when it's just beginning!Your Welcome;-)
Greg
Dr Abrams Consult Today IN SARATOGA -- vs, 10:36:06 08/25/03 Mon
Ok I have a consult with dr Abrams in saratoga california today. I'm excited.
Some people on here had seen her before, whats your experience with her??? How
much does she charge?? Was she a good dr at what she didI WANT EVERYONES ADVICE PLEASE ON DR. ABRAMS.
Dr Rullan/steve -- vs, 10:24:55 08/25/03 Mon
Well I'm going to see a Dr Abrahm tomorrow, then when I go down to LA see the
smoothbeam dr. I guess while i'm down in that area I could see Dr. Rullan. I
wasn't very nice to him though on this website when I put his exoderm down, So
i doubt he would want to see me. But who knows.
Isolagen (Matt) -- Peter, 05:50:38 08/25/03 Mon
Matt,
Thanks for your response!! I hope that Isolagen works out for you!! I was
curious if you would like to keep in contact? It would be really great to hear
updates on your results!! I posted my email if it would be easier to talk that
way, but I am sure that many on the board would love to hear about your
results!!! Thanks again and hope to hear from you.
Peter
Vs -- steve, 05:12:08 08/25/03 Mon
and he's undoubtebly one of the best acne revision Dr. on the west coast.. You
will be lucky to find any Dr with the experience Dr. Rullan has when it comes
to chemical peels and scars
VS -- Steve, 05:08:35 08/25/03 Mon
if you're willing to travel cross country maybe you should go visit Dr.
Rullan..He wont charge you a consulatation fee, and you can see the varios treatments
he offers.. You may be a perfect candidate for the exoderm..
Dr Kaminer -- vs, 05:00:10 08/25/03 Mon
I just emailed Dr. Kaminer a long email on behalf of all of us, explaining how
we are all in search of a dr who is great with patients and good with acne
scars. Lets hope he emails me back with some encouraging words.
Dear Brian..Dr Micheal Kaminer -- vs, 04:04:47 08/25/03 MonBrian can you tell me more about dr Kaminer.. I'm willing to travel to boston
to see him from california, who is he? Have you gone to him personally? Is he
well known for his specialty in acne scar revision? HELP HELP HELP!I'll book a flight and apointment first thing tomorrow morning to see him, if
he is good!
LT -- Bryan, 01:37:39 08/25/03 Mon
One more thing, try bowling sometime. Ten frames of Rolling that ball pretty
much takes your mind off everything. A strike is a strike albeit temporary,
it's a lot of fun.. ;)
To: LT -- Bryan, 01:23:52 08/25/03 MonI felt the same way you do now (and to a certain degree still do). Just kinda
hopeless about my acne scars and how to go about fixing them. I'm 32 and have
been scarred since age 20 also (with the "worst one" getting me about age 24).
No real problems as a teenager and so true exactly what you said about having
a "light hearted feeling" about life and what life had to offer. After
becoming scarred I had that heavy hearted feeling, too, which I liked to call
tunnel vision. It seemed like the world just kinda closed in on me like a
tunnel. And to be honest it really does, people do look at you differently
once something is wrong or different. It feels as though options are limited
since the first thing people do is notice I have a few scars. I felt like a
freaking turtle, going back into my shell. My cousin still looks at me sorta
cross eyed. And you know what, the sad thing is it's true. The realization of
acne scars hurts the most. Nobody can really feel your pain or our pain as
acne scarred people. I put into perspective for someone I know that had a cold
sore on their lip. We were having dinner and I noticed she was fidgety,
uneasy, and had a "heavy heart" about the flaw on her face. She has no other
facial problems and the cold sore was temporary. Life returns to normal and
the heavy heart lifts after the cold sore gone. I asked her think about
someone like me that has acne scarring and to think about having that fidgety,
heavy hearted feeling for the rest of your life. She started to cry and
realized the pain that acne scarred persons deal with. Parents, doctors say it
builds character but that never really made me feel any better about myself. I
felt I had good enough charater before and never used my looks to manipulate
or hurt anyone before the scarring. So I disagree with that
"characterization." So the upshot of all this is please hang there and take
comfort in knowing we all have this burden of scarring hanging over our heads
like a dark cloud. I feel like Snoopy with the ugly Christmas tree sometimes.
A good dermatologic surgeon that's one of best at various treatments for
scarring is Dr. Michael Kaminer in Boston. Maybe he can help you....don't go
the sucicide route. Take care!
Steve suicide -- vss, 23:59:42 08/24/03 Sun
Ya I think suicide is fine, i'm a supporter of dr. kavorkian. If your
terminally ill, or handicap to the point of not being able to function, or if
your so depressed-- for several yrs, the everday existance of life is
excrutiating pain, you've sought medical help for yrs, and familly help, and
friend help, and nothing helps. And you cry all day, and your in total misery,
why should you continue to live? So yes i think suicide is ok, its a personal
choice, just like abortion should be a womans right to choose, suicide should
be ones choice. I mean suicide can be selfish way out, but if your life is so
miserable, that everyday caueses your soul and your heart extreme anguish,
then why should you have to go through the pain. Its not faire to live such a
sad life, why live if you cant enjoy living. Just my thoughts.
LT (again sorry) -- MarcSheep, 23:18:15 08/24/03 Sun
Another suggestion is, if you are truly lonely and believe it to be a result
of your scars, then find a man who truly cannot care about appearance, someone
not confined by societies image of perfection...try a blind or visually
impaired person to share your life with...But I know that most men are able to
see past scars, become friends with someone first...It often develops into a
relationship...
vs and LT -- Marcsheep, 23:13:11 08/24/03 Sun
i agree with vs that in some cirumstances suicide is ok ie. terminal illness
or utterly unbearable living conditions, but to KILL YOURSELF over acne
scarring is an appalling waste, especially considering how treatable it
is....I defy anyone with severe acne scarring to say that they have never
considered suicide as a solution, but LT you've got to realise that people
exist with worse problems than yourself and myself....Goto a burn survivor
website to get some perspective on how little significance our problems really
have...Better yet volunteer at a burns unit in a local hospital (which I have
done) and see real beauty, strength and pain...If you would rather die than
live with scarring then rather than kill yourself LT get a facial tattoo,
literally a black tattoo...It will hide your scars (as black cant cast a
shadow on black) and though you would look different at least you could live a
full life...This is however a very extreme solution...Marc
LT -- STeve, 22:21:36 08/24/03 Sun
VS, uhh maybe it was a typo, but what is up with this "I think suicide is ok"
comment? Yes we should be encouraging, but not encouraging in such a sinister
way...
LT, i understand how you feel.. But how bad do you feel you scarring is? is
your scarring deep?I have personally gotten an Exoderm Done by Dr. Rullan in San Diego who visits
this board.. Its my belief that a exoderm along with touchups should get you
great results..Exoderm is a deep phenol type peel (its not your typica phenol peel, i guess
compared to regular phenol its easier on the skin and more effective on
scars..Search for Exodem at google and do a litle research..
If you have the financesy you can do SOME Drastic things to improve your
skin..Unfortunately this is the toughest part about skin repair is that often you
need money..Needling in conjunction with Skn Biology CP products do some great things as
well, and its real cheap..So dont give up, rely on God, and he shall lead you to a better day
Dr Abrams In Saratoga...ANYONE SEEN HER? -- vs, 21:18:06 08/24/03 Sun
Hey, Has anyone seen dr Abrams in Saratoga california? I remember some of you
mentioned her name like almost 2 yrs ago.
I have an apointment scheduled with her on monday. She personally called me
saturday morning after leaving a message with her receptionist. WOW...i've
never had a Dr call me on a saturday to talk to me about acne scars! She was
super nice, but she was kinda slow. You know how some people you talk to, and
they talk like they are 100 yrs old, and you have to be patient for each word
to come out of their mouth. I'm only bringing this up, because i wonder if
shes going to be like that when working on my face? I like drs who are totally
vital and up to date on all current dermatology news, she was kinda outdated
it seemed. But then again it was just a phone conversation!So if anyone has seen dr abrams in person, my apointment is tomorrow... so
please POST SOME REPLIES ABOUT YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH HER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
SMOOTHBEAM -- vs, 21:10:39 08/24/03 Sun
Ok well I went onto www.smoothbeam.com and i Clicked under practionar finder.
to find a dr in my area who has smoothbeam. I found like 3 drs in my area, and
all 3 had no clue it was fda approved for acne scars. One lady on the phone
even argued with me "listen i do this for a living, smoothbeam is approved
only for acne not scars." I was like "well why dont you go to smoothbeam.com
and you'll see your wrong." Stupid b*tch.So then I looked to the LA area, since I go there often. Only 1 out of the 3
LA places listed on the smoothbeam website new it was FDA approved for scars.
She was very nice! She talked to me for like 10 minutes on the phone and
explained the procedure to me. She said its not good for people with dark
skin, you may hyperpigment. The cost of treatment is 400 dollars per treatment
for the entire face or 300 for just your cheek areas. You need 4 treatments
she said, each treatment is spaced 1 month apart. She said the MOST
improvement she has ever seen however with smoothbeam is 30-40 percent. So i'm
guessing most patients see about 10-20 percent improvement, at a total cost of
1600 bucks after 4 treatments for the full face is this worth it? She did say
something interesting... "even if it doesnt help your scars, its like being on
accutane...you wont get any more zits." I have an appointment to get the laser
done on sept 3rd. But at 400 bucks a pop, and if your lucky you get 30-40
percent improvement after 4 treatments, i'm wondering if its worth it ???? I
also go down to San diego sometimes, so I contacted a few Drs there, and 2 drs
said after disapointing results for acne scars, they only use smoothbeam for
acne now.
So I guess the verdict so far from drs I've contacted is that smoothbeam is
not the miracle we thought :(
MARC - URL & LT -- cb, 21:09:17 08/24/03 Sun
Marc the web address you posted for the clinic in Mexico didn't work? Could
you please check it and post again? By the way thanks for checking back. I'm
glad to hear the needling session you got held up. You are one of the pioneers
to have this procedure done. Have you had more than one session of needling?LT - hang in there gal. I know the exact same feelings your going through a
lot of us do. Please look into getting some help, counselling or something.
Bottom line is, that you are a wonderful person and deserve much more than you
give yourself credit for.Stay optimistic, treatments like: subscision, smoothbeam, or spot TCA look
promissing. Isolagen is supposed to be FDA approved by sometime next year.
LT PLEASE READ! -- VS, 20:56:34 08/24/03 Sun
Hi, LT
Trust me I know what your going through totally! Every second of every day I
think about my scars, even my sleep pattern is disturbed because of this, I
think about my scars in my sleep, yikes.
You need to go to a sychiatrist and tell them the truth, you need to be put on
medication maybe. If your suicidal now, then trying meds wont hurt--along with
therapy. I've been on EFFEXOR...it sucks---DONT USE IT. PAXIL IS better--but
has lots of side effects.Ok now on to your scars. I suggest the following treatment, first you must
plump up the scars from underneath. The best method for this is subcision.
Subcision is the process of using a blunt tool to go under each scar..and cut
up the scar tissue that is holding the depressed scar down. More than 1
treatment is usually needed for best results. Theres also a brand new method
of subcision using a long sharp wire coil.. but the method is so scary I wont
even mention it here. The cost is relatively cheep for subcision compared to
lasers. Laser resurfacing does not work! After your scars have been plumped up
with subsicion, if your a good canidate for resurfacing... ie your skin color
is not too dark, then I suggest dermasanding/skin buffing.Now my following comments are going to get a bunch of people yelling out on
this forum, but again i'm speaking of my own PERSONAL EXPERIENCE. LASER
resurfacing does not work, I've had full face deep laser resurfacing with less
then 10 percent improvement, and I paid 5 grand for it. Chemical peels dont
work, i've had tca peels at 500 dollars with no results. Topical creams dont
work for scars, DONT WASTE YOUR MONEY! ONLY retin A and hydroquinone mixed
together may help the coloring of the scars. Also needling so far has not
worked for me. As long as Tattoo artists dont jack up the price of Needling,
its not really a loose situation. It was a major loose situation form me
because the person I went to for some reason charges 400 bucks now, and If you
get no results thats a lot of money to loose. But if you go to a tattoo artist
who only charges about 150, and you get no results...then No big loss right? I
guess then it becomes worth a shot. I must say though, i've noticed only the
same few people keep saying how great needling is, other people who have tried
it haven't had the same great results. Just an observation.LT hope I was helpfull.... I personally think suicide is ok, but if you want
to live -go see a sychiastrist-- maybe therapy and medication will help you.
Once your mind is clear...start working on those scars! Your best path is
subcision.
Also you said your 28 and no bf... well heres something to think about. My
sister is prolly THE MOST beutiful woman i've seen. Everywhere we go, people
staire at her. Everyone tells her they have never seen anyone that looks like
her. I was in Beverly hills with her recently, she lives in LA.... and we were
at a famous plastic surgeons office...and he even said "my god I see models
and celebrities all the time, I been doing this for over 20 yrs in beverly
hills, i've never seen someone as beutiful as you." He was talking about my
sister. Anyways..my point is...she is still single at the age of 29 and she
looks likes a freaking supermodel, shes hotter than Britney Spears..Elizebeth
Hurley...Giselle Bunchem...all those people combined. So maybe its not your
scars that are preventing you to meet a guy, maybe its your negative inner
being,spirit, and low self worth that is being radiated towards others
preventing you to find someone, and maybe your scared of finding someone
because you have such low self worth..that you dont want someone else to know
how low you feel about your self.
And i've seen some pretty good looking guys with ugly girls..and some hot
girls like my sister dating some butt ugly guys. So you've got a chance! Plus
i bet your beutiful and your still young, people are getting married older and
older these days.
Just my thoughts!
Marcsheep -- LT, 18:34:23 08/24/03 Sun
I have never had a boyfriend. I am already 28. I am too old, it's too late for
me. Why should any man want to look at me, let alone touch me?I've read about needling, and lasers. They seem high risk, high risk of
further scarring, or of no gain at all.
LT -- Marcsheep, 18:27:18 08/24/03 Sun
I used to think like that LT, until you discover what can be done about the
scars...Needling and smootbeam are the best and most current remedies...It is
not uncommon for 100% scar eradication following these treatments...there is
hope and I personally guaruntee that acne scarring will be quickly and easily
treatable before 2008 - if it isnt already...There is always hope...Marc
How do you know when it is time to end it? -- LT, 17:31:44 08/24/03 Sun
28 years old. Scarred since I was 20. I don't see any hope. Every day since I
got scarred there is a heavy weight on my heart, I wake up every morning and
know that I am scarred. Before I got scarred I used to wake up and feel happy
and look forward to the day. I know now I will never feel happy and light
hearted ever again.
Smoothbeam -- MarcSheep, 15:48:04 08/24/03 Sun
I agree Ping, smoothbeam definately seems like one step away from a total
cure, but from what I have heard it is pretty close to one...Its pretty
obvious to me that after people have been posting 70-80% improvements that
either long term repeat treatments or the next generation laser will be 100%
effective and in comparison to co2 etc the cost is relatively cheap and the
downtime minimal/non existant -Tell you what America - the uk will trade u isolagen for smoothbeam - agreed
???Marc
cooltouch and smoothbeam -- ping, 12:03:20 08/24/03 Sun
Hi, Alice and everybody,
It has been quite a while since my last post. I am quite busy recently.Alice,
I also from Singapore too. Earlier this year, I undergo 3 treatment of
cooltouch from a laser clinic in Mount Elizabeth. Frankly, it didn't benefit
me any good in my opinion. However, smoothbean is getting lots of attention
these days and lots of people are raving over it on other forums. Unlike
cooltouch, smoothbeam is given clearance for scars by the FDA. I advise giving
smoothbeam a try.One question for my fellow singaporeans..
Beside our National skin centre, does anyone knows of where we can receive
smoothbeam in Singapore??
Thanks!!
Fillers -- Dan, 06:42:00 08/24/03 Sun
Age : 22
Gender : Male
Country : Singapore
Hi I'm from Singapore and over the last 2 years i have tried subcision,
cooltouch, dermabrasion, chemical peels etc. My acne scars have certain
improvements but my face still appears depressed for some reason. I am
considering injecting fillers into my face such as fat transplants but i am
not sure about the cost. Can anyone provide me with any info on fat transfer?
Thanks.
Drs are just plain RUDE...and Sorry Dr. Rulan -- vs, 18:25:14 08/23/03 Sat
My god, cosmetic Dermatologists are so rude, if you dont pay them for their
time they dont even talk to you. I've been contacting lots of drs this week
through email, and they all have such attitude problems answering questions,
one dr flat out said "I really must see you to answer any more questions." I
have a freaking apointment booked with him in sept, he is going to get his
consultation money dang, couldnt he just answer some questions I had through
email before our consult.
And he charges a wopping 250 for a consult, with that attitude, i think i'm
going to cancell my apt with him.
what is up with all these dermatologists, I hope they realize there is a God,
and the way they treat others will come back to them. Dont be a dr if all your
interested in is money!
At least Dr. Rullan takes the time to answer peoples question online and
doesnt have an attitude problem. Even though I'm still weary about exoderm, at
least he isn't a flat out jerk of a dr to your face.We need to make our voices heard somehow, and let these big shot jerk drs know
we have feelings and going through acne scarring is emotional, we dont need
their money hungry attitude on top of it!
www.clinicastetica.com -- MARC, 01:50:24 08/23/03 SatHello All,
I was on this board 8 or so months ago after I had needling done in the san
francisco area.... just an update and some more info... The needling has held
up well... although subjective, I think I continued to see improvements for 6
or so months after my treatment. more of an overall improvement in texture
than anything else, but well worth the cost and effort.I'm actually on here to share some traetments I've been recieving at a clinic
in Mexico just south of the san diego border. The website of the clinic is
www.clinicastetica.com they have been using a european "FDA" approved
"polyamide" filler for facial deformities, targeting people who's fat was
wasting from HIV medication. I ran across their site doing research on fillers
last Feb. and called them. Although they had not done much work with acne
scarring, I gave it a try, figuring if they can fill such large depressions
permanently, they could help me. The substance in totally permanent, and the
directors of the clinic are pushing for US FDA approval. (It is a polymer
encapsulated plastic made by a huge Italian pharmaceutical company) It is not
a silicon. The only issue is that although removable, you cannot have CO2
laser afterwards because the intense heat may affect the properties of the
filler. (although after a bad CO2 experience 4 yrs ago..lots of money, &
downtime... negligable results, that was not a problem for me.
Again, like the needling, I am not advocating this, just sharing my personal
experience. I have chosen to take risks with unproven or unapproved
techniques, but am very pleased with the results. I have not thought about my
skin for months.... its just there, looking normal & smooth... as it should be
for averyone.I felt Dr's there were very professional, and the clinic itself was the same
caliber as any US medical establishment.There are 2 fillers, one "thick" for large areas, the other more liquid for
fine correction. The process for me was ane session to fill in larger areas
with the thicker version, then 6 weeks later with the thinner to smooth out
fine contours.So.. after 2 sessions, My depressed scars are completely filled,
and have not returned after 6 months.oh yea, cost 2K to 4K depending on ammount of filler used. I live in LA now so
I just drove. mine was 3K. It is the best investment I have ever made.Check out their site, it has amazing photos that are real, and the director
Ana is great....Best of luck everyone
copper peptides -- julie, 21:01:16 08/22/03 Fri
hi, i have been using super cp serum for a month and i think i am feeling
quite an improvement in skin elasticity and overall skin tone though i still
see some of the red spots, (i expect major difference every morning) i would
say that it has given my skin the best improvement in the shortest time. and i
have tried everything in the market from expensive brands to japanese skincare
and OTC products everything (i was an occasional shoplifter) and i believe
copper peptides is the only thing i will ever need. wow. i am really sleepy
right now and i have applied a blue layer of the trireduction on my face and i
think i should sleep except i feel compelled to write this post. my face feels
soft and 'normal' now and it is just great. you must try copper peptides and
be patient. also please remember that YOUR SKIN WILL GET BETTER!
To Peter (Isolagen) -- Matt, 17:20:52 08/22/03 Fri
Hi Peter,
I live in England and have recently had the biopsy done in London for my
isolagen treatment for my acne scars. It will take 6-8 weeks for my cells to
grow and for my 1st set of injections, the following 2 sets of injections are
spaced 3 weeks apart. I have hypopigmentation-white scars, isolagen will not
help these it is the craters which it will help. I have been shown photos
which look like really good results and he says he even has people flying in
from america every few weeks to carry out the procedure! FDA approval in
America should happen about this time next year. It is costing £2500.I hope this info has helped you out.
Cooltouch -- Steve, 05:49:19 08/22/03 Fri
Alice, from what i understand Cooltouch is very ineffective at teating acne
scars... IM sure the severity of a persons scars comes into play, but for the
most part its pretty ineffective
Cooltouch in Singapore -- Alice, 05:04:46 08/22/03 Fri
Age : 28
Gender : Female
Country : SingaporeCooltouch is now available in suburbs like Balestier Plaza and Tampines Mall,
I was recently told, and at a fraction of the Orchard Road prices. Complete
with IPL, CO2 lasers, diamond abraders and all the kinds of stuff you would
find in expensive esthetic clinics.Anyone has any experience there?
I agree, Steve -- Denise1, 17:17:20 08/21/03 ThuAlso, it seems as if people who have had invasive procedures like dermabrasian
don't seem to get the desired results, either.I still think too, that if you don't do some kind of topical to stimulate
collagen AFTER the needling, you won't get desired results. I tend to think
it's a *mixture* of all of these things that brings desired results.As you can tell from your first and second needlings, applying copper peptides
during the "scab phase" seems to do something drastic, also.Anyway, these are just observations I've made on myself also.
ISOLAGEN -- Peter, 03:52:42 08/21/03 Thu
I was curious as to any new news on Isolagen yet? I know a few people on this
board were supposed to participate in some of the studies. If I recall
correctly the trials started in July and I was curious as to how they were
coming along and what the results are? Please respond with any amount of info
that would be beneficial. Thanks. Peter
Amanda -- Steve, 03:47:33 08/21/03 Thu
Amanda.. Im was wondering.. did the person who did your needling use a tattoo
gun? i understand this makes a world of difference..
ANd if so.. were you scabby in the areas you got needled in? The scabbiness i
a good sign that the needlin session was invasive enough.. And seems to be
fairly important to get good results
VS AND STEVE ON SMOOTHBEAM AND NEEDLING -- AMANDA, 23:17:43 08/20/03 Wed--VS and Steve please keep us informed about the smoothbeam if you decide to
get it done.
--Needling has failed for me also. I have completed 3 full sessions spaced 4
months apart each. Once I discovered this website I have included super serum
into my skin needling routine. It has been about a year since my first
needling session. Nothing exciting has happened yet to my scars. One scar
actually looks deeper then it did before.
--The Prospect of FDA approval of smoothbeam on acne scars opens my eyes to
new hope. I see the light! maybe lol
--Must get back to work, chow
Hi again, Steve -- Denise1, 22:39:50 08/20/03 WedMan, I've gotta get offa this internet! LOL!!!
I answered your questions in the order you asked here:
thats wonderful to hear..
I actually decided not to use The Super Serum after needling for i thought it
may be to harsh on my face and stuck with the regular Serum.. I needled in a
large portion of my face so i decided to take the safe route..But it seems as
though some of the scars that didnt respond much after my first session, hve
respoded after the second w CP serum and EMU oil..Denise: That's great. I'm glad to hear that.
Denise, how soon after needlin do you think it would be safe enough to go
ahead and give myself a facial peel with saliysic acid?.. Did you do a peel
immediately upon healing? Did you wait a few weeks... Im going to have an
Exoderm touchup very soon, so i would like to get a peel done right before if
possible..Denise: I waited a few weeks. If you have never done a peel, Steve, please
please please please....I beseech you by the mercies of God to dilute it with
DISTILLED WATER ONLY and go easy. I think it was Ebby that agreed with me. She
really made her skin raw after leaving it on for ONLY ONE MINUTE. That's why I
have recommended that people either start with a much weaker solution, or
dilute the salicylic acid solution. It is very strong, much stronger than even
the 50% lactic acid peels everyone does. My skin is very tough and thick, so
it really wasn't an issue for me though it stings the mess out of me too. Do a
test patch and make sure you can do it without your skin turning really red.
That's a sure sign you are burning your skin if it's red when you put the peel
on.And when doing your peels.. Immediately upon you peel is that when you start
applying CP serum and EMU oil? then do you begin to apply the Super Serum 4 to
5 times a day for the next couple of days while your peeling? Since you're
getting such great results, i may as well piggy back on to your regiment :)Denise: Right. You want to put the peptides on right away. Be sure to use the
SUPER SERUM for much better results on your scars. I only applied the super
serum 4-5 times a day when healing from needling, NOT PEELING. Definately
don't apply the super serum 4-5 times a day for a peel. Right after the peel,
spot treat your scars with the super serum twice a day. I only apply emu oil
at night when I'm not healing from needling. It's very thick and whatnot.
However, I'm sure it couldn't hurt your skin if that's what you want to do!
Hi again, Steve -- Denise1, 22:38:05 08/20/03 WedMan, I've gotta get offa this internet! LOL!!!
I answered your questions in the order you asked here:
thats wonderful to hear..
I actually decided not to use The Super Serum after needling for i thought it
may be to harsh on my face and stuck with the regular Serum.. I needled in a
large portion of my face so i decided to take the safe route..But it seems as
though some of the scars that didnt respond much after my first session, hve
respoded after the second w CP serum and EMU oil..Denise: That's great. I'm glad to hear that.
Denise, how soon after needlin do you think it would be safe enough to go
ahead and give myself a facial peel with saliysic acid?.. Did you do a peel
immediately upon healing? Did you wait a few weeks... Im going to have an
Exoderm touchup very soon, so i would like to get a peel done right before if
possible..Denise: I waited a few weeks. If you have never done a peel, Steve, please
please please please....I beseech you by the mercies of God to dilute it with
DISTILLED WATER ONLY and go easy. I think it was Ebby that agreed with me. She
really made her skin raw after leaving it on for ONLY ONE MINUTE. That's why I
have recommended that people either start with a much weaker solution, or
dilute the salicylic acid solution. It is very strong, much stronger than even
the 50% lactic acid peels everyone does. My skin is very tough and thick, so
it really wasn't an issue for me though it stings the mess out of me too. Do a
test patch and make sure you can do it without your skin turning really red.
That's a sure sign you are burning your skin if it's red when you put the peel
on.And when doing your peels.. Immediately upon you peel is that when you start
applying CP serum and EMU oil? then do you begin to apply the Super Serum 4 to
5 times a day for the next couple of days while your peeling? Since you're
getting such great results, i may as well piggy back on to your regiment :)Denise: Right. You want to put the peptides on right away. Be sure to use the
SUPER SERUM for much better results on your scars. I only applied the super
serum 4-5 times a day when healing from needling, NOT PEELING. Definately
don't apply the super serum 4-5 times a day for a peel. Right after the peel,
spot treat your scars with the super serum twice a day. I only apply emu oil
at night when I'm not healing from needling. It's very thick and whatnot.
However, I'm sure it couldn't hurt your skin if that's what you want to do!
Denise -- Steve, 21:02:54 08/20/03 Wedthats wonderful to hear..
I actually decided not to use The Super Serum after needling for i thought it
may be to harsh on my face and stuck with the regular Serum.. I needled in a
large portion of my face so i decided to take the safe route..But it seems as
though some of the scars that didnt respond much after my first session, hve
respoded after the second w CP serum and EMU oil..Denise, how soon after needlin do you think it would be safe enough to go
ahead and give myself a facial peel with saliysic acid?.. Did you do a peel
immediately upon healing? Did you wait a few weeks... Im going to have an
Exoderm touchup very soon, so i would like to get a peel done right before if
possible..And when doing your peels.. Immediately upon you peel is that when you start
applying CP serum and EMU oil? then do you begin to apply the Super Serum 4 to
5 times a day for the next couple of days while your peeling? Since you're
getting such great results, i may as well piggy back on to your regiment :)
Denise -- Steve, 21:01:13 08/20/03 Wedthats wonderful to hear..
I actually decided not to use The Super Serum after needling for i thought it
may be to harsh on my face and stuck with the regular Serum.. I needled in a
large portion of my face so i decided to take the safe route..But it seems as
though some of the scars that didnt respond much after my first session, hve
respoded after the second w CP serum and EMU oil..Denise, how soon after needlin do you think it would be safe enough to go
ahead and give myself a facial peel with saliysic acid?.. Did you do a peel
immediately upon healing? Did you wait a few weeks... Im going to have an
Exoderm touchup very soon, so i would like to get a peel done right before if
possible..
Steve -- Denise1, 20:48:08 08/20/03 WedWell, Dr. Pickert is right. People who think that indents or scars of any kind
will be eliminated by peels are wrong. They only remove dead skin cells,
except for TCA's. It's combining the peels (especially strong ones) with the
SUPER serum that seems to yield excellent results.I havn't used the dermaroller in quite a while because it's been 4 weeks since
my second needling and I have been doing peels, so I didn't want to be too
hard on my skin.I did use it every night for at least 2 months to help with product
penetration after my first needling. I just havn't started using it again as I
didn't want to overdo it.I do agree with you about the second needling and the use of the SUPER serum.
I am literally in awe at the second needling's results. I kept talking about
getting your skin on a collagen producing roll with the SUPER serum, Retin A,
etc.....as I truly believe that's the key to seeing incredible results. Each
and every day, I look in the mirror and cannot believe my scars. The pits are
tiny and almost all gone. What's so hysterical is that when Lilian went into
the pit that bothered me most, I pretty much thought she totally missed it
because the scab seemed to attach RIGHT ABOVE it, instead of IN it. I was
like: DANG IT! I HAVE TO GET THAT SCAR DONE AGAIN. Then after about 2 1/2
weeks, I could tell something was definately going on and now it's pretty much
skin level. This second needling has been absolutely nothing short of
astonishing for me, and I do believe, like you Steve, that the SUPER serum has
a lot to do with it.Even in small scars that I didn't have needled before this second needling on
my cheek are pretty much gone, after 4 weeks.It's really an awesome blessing to have found this combination of needling and
Super serum.
Denise -- Stee, 20:24:38 08/20/03 WedDenise.. The reason i ask about the peel thing was because i happen to be on
the delphi forums and i came across a comment by Dr. Pickart where he stated
that the reason why glycolic peels are pretty ineffective on acne scars is
because it doesnt penetrate deep enough to be effective..So i just was thinking that maybe the dermrollr in conjunction with Peels,
Super CP Serum and Retin A may do wonders... I may try to experiment with the
saliysic acid and dermaroller..Denise, how often are you using the dermaroller?...
Im real excited about your results.. The scabbing have vrtually all fallen off
from my second needling session..And by God, there seems to be results
ALREADY! The Cp Serum and needling should be standard when getting this
procedure done..
Steve and VS -- Denise1, 16:25:15 08/20/03 Wed**The stuff I capitalize is to emphasize a point, not yell. I would like a
bold option here at this site!VS: You cannot confirm whether or not needling did anything until at least 4-6
weeks from your needling and you will not know much of anything until 8 WEEKS
FROM YOUR NEEDLING. For you to expect so much after 2 weeks is unreasonable.
I've emphasized over and over that collagen doesn't fill in overnight and that
slow and easy is best. I still have scars that are filling in from the first
needling that I didn't get needled the second time I went in. I've emphasized
this over and over. Why do you keep insisting that this was a failure?On the Environ website, the picture of the lady who had very bad, deep lines
over her upper lip had the lines totally filled in. Dr. Des Fernandez even
says on that site that the woman in the picture wanted to have a second
treatment done after a few months, but couldn't get to his office. After 9
months, she went back in and they decided that she didn't need a second
treatment.Even Steve said that he noticed a huge improvement after 8 weeks.
Just like you didn't have miracle results with subcision after a few weeks, it
will be the same with needling.Steve: What Dr. Pickert says on his site, and that I've noticed for myself, is
that the COPPER PEPTIDES ARE WHAT WORK WITH PEELS. Slightly damaging your skin
and combining it with copper peptides is what heals scars, NOT THE PEELS
THEMSELVES!!! Peels don't do anything except take off dead skin cells, unless
ofcourse it's a TCA peel.See, I knew that the Super serum was doing something phenomanol when I started
having non-needled scars and scarred pores fill in and totally disappear after
I would do a peel. I would do a strong peel, then during that 7-10 day period
when my skin was pulled tight from the peel, I would see that the scars would
disappear or shrink. Then, when my skin would go back to NORMAL, I noticed
that the filling in seemed to slow down a bit. Dr. Pickert really is onto
something here with combining a strong peel with super serum. That's why he
specifically says that on his site, to get the best results with the super
serum, to combine it with a peel. I mean, my scarred pores were something I
never had hope for. But now, I expect that within a few short months, they
will literally be non-existant. Even now with makeup they are gone.As for the dermaroller, it certainly does help with the penetration of
products,that much I know. It's hard to say for sure that it does all that
it's advertised. I havn't used mine in a while because I felt with the peels I
was doing that it was too much on my skin, plus, I use Retin A everynight too.
But I do think it's a good thing, but if you're doing a regimen of peels,
Retin A, etc....it might be too much for your skin.
Steve and SmoothBeam -- vs, 11:18:57 08/20/03 WedSteve I think smoothbeam may be promising also. My sister use to work at a
Beverly Hills Plastic surgeons office, and she asked the Dr for me about
N.Lite and cooltouch II. About a yr ago people on this voy site were raving
about those 2 non-ablative lasers. I desperatly wanted to get cooltouch done,
and the Dr Advised my sister to tell me to wait for a laser that would be most
likely FDA approved for acne scars within a yr called "smoothbeam". He said he
had used the laser with amazing results on acne scars, and in his opinion
nlite and cooltouch did not work for acne scarring. He didn't own the laser at
the time, and waiting list for him to get one into his office was a long time
becuase he rented the machine instead of owning it, because he didnt use it
very often in his practice. Anyways, she no longer works there, but to make a
longer story short-- maybe there is hope in the smoothbeam laser!!!! Gosh now
I wish I didnt waste 400 bucks on needling and had saved that money for
smoothbeam treatments. I was desperate getting the needling done, I have
promised my self never to jump into such a quick haste dangerous decision like
that again. I put my face into the hands of someone with no medical
background. Medical degree doesn't gaurantee safety, but man was it stupid of
me doing what I did.Tomorrow morning i'm going to call around and inquir about the smoothbeam, to
see which drs in my area have it! Gosh i'm so excited about smoothbeam now!
Lets hope this isn't another waste of money.
Denise -- Steve, 07:48:47 08/20/03 WedDenise I have a question for you..
Have you tried using your dermaroller when doing your peels?.. FRom my
understading many mild peels are ineffective in treating acne scars because
they dont penetrate the skin deep enough... Dont you think having peels in
conjunction with the dermaroller would help get the acids penetrate deep
enough to be effective on scars?..Im really excited of the possibilities using the dermaroller may give us..
Dermaroller w/ peels, retin A, and CP serum may do wonders..
Smoothbeam.com -- Steve, 05:31:57 08/20/03 WedYou guys should check out the Smootbeam site.. Some pretty interesting stuff..
I noticed the guy with the most profound scarring had really great
results..But it seems like whoever was in the charge of the pictures try to
blur out some of the scarring on the post op picture.. Haha.. Bastards..But hey. This laser may really work
SMOOTHBEAM!!!!!!!! -- Nick Fisher, 05:11:55 08/20/03 WedSmoothbeam seems to work on pitted acne scars. There is legitimate enough
evidence to support this and look at the website smoothbeam.com. IT IS FDA
CLEARED FOR ACNE SCARS!!!!!! I spoke with a physician today in ATLANTA and she
swears by this and says it really is the first truly effective procedure for
acne scarring (pitted). It's just that simple
SMOOTHBEAM!!!!!!!! -- Nick Fisher, 05:10:52 08/20/03 WedSmoothbeam seems to work on pitted acne scars. There is legitimate enough
evidence to support this and look at the website smoothbeam.com. IT IS FDA
CLEARED FOR ACNE SCARS!!!!!! I spoke with a physician today in ATLANTA and she
swears by this and says it really is the first truly effective procedure for
acne scarring (pitted). It's just that simple
Needling Conclusion -- vs, 03:25:45 08/20/03 WedWell this is my conclusion on needling so far. My swelling has completely gone
away, and my skin looks exactly the way it was before. Some spots have
hyperpigmented, and I pray to god its just temporary. I been applying
hydroquinone to the pigmented spots, to prevent long term pigmentation.So far no improvement, not even 1 percent in any scars. I'm going to give it
time and see if collagen grows in. But right now i'm thinking this was a waste
of my money.
To MarcSheep -- vs, 03:21:19 08/20/03 WedDeark MarcSheep, that website is sorta exagerating. Nlite is not a cure for
acne scars, although it may be a cure to some people for acne-zits-pimples
itself. Nlite is not new, at least in the US its not, so anyways--no N lite
will not get rid of your scars, may help but wont get rid of them.
Makes me sick -- MarcSheep, 01:45:18 08/20/03 WedTHE CURE IS HERE ?????? (amazing !!!)
I have just chanced upon this website and feel sick to my stomach........
[URL]http://www.theprivateclinic.co.uk/acnecentre/nlite.htm[/URL]Particularly the assertion that :
"The treatment itself is very fast, about 30 minutes and is totally safe
leaving no signs on the skin surface. N-Lite clears acne and scars in 1/2
treatments."I have written to the company and challenged them to produce these results
saying that if it does not work then I dont pay and inform the trading
standards agency (ie. sue them) and if it does (which it wont!) i will pay
them 5000 pounds sterling......which i am more than prepared to do.......I cant wait to hear their reply, however me thinks my money is safe.....
Marc
needling in Fla and dermaroller -- Amez, 22:37:36 08/18/03 MonIn response to needling in Florida. Looks like there are a few of us on the
board in Florida looking for needlers. I haven't been successful in Sarasota,
but I haven't tried that hard--Just made a few unsuccessful calls to tatoo
artists in the area. Let's keep each other posted on anyone in the state that
does this. I'd definitely be willing to make the drive. Not sure that I want
to fly to NY, DC, SF, or LA to get this done. Are these the places that people
mostly are getting this done in the states?Also, I did just buy the dermaroller. It seems to be doing something. Too soon
to tell. My super CP serum sure stings when I apply it now. Thanks again Maya
for the info.--amy
Needling Day 8 update -- vs, 22:19:37 08/17/03 SunHi..well its day 8 of my needling. My swelling has gone away, and
unfortunately my scars look the same as before. I have a few spots that
scabbed and have turned brown...I hope that is just temporary
hyperpigmentation. So far I have noticed No change on my scars, but I'm going
to keep my fingers crossed and hope between now and the next few weeks
collagen starts to grow.At this point for me personally, I would reccomomend subsicion over needling.
Subsicion is not much more expensive, and produced real results for me, and so
far needling hasnt done anything.Again, i'm still going to be patient, and see if the theory of "collagen grows
in during the weeks" is true or not.Take care.
needling in Fla and dermaroller -- Nick Fisher, 22:09:36 08/17/03 SunDoes anyone know of anybody doing needling in northern fla or ga (like atlanta
area)?Also, has anyone tried this new dermaroller device that is supposed to be the
miracle cure for pitted acne scarring?Look at site http://www.dermaroller.com from university of marburg in germany
Needling vs. Smoothbeam -- Tina, 21:10:10 08/17/03 SunHi: Haven't posted in a long while. Want to say hey to Denise1. I'm the one
who bought your TNS product a while back. Congrats on your super needling
results. Am so glad you've had success. I know we've both been in the hunt for
a solution for a long time.Found out that there's a place about 60 miles away that does Smoothbeam. I've
got depressed rolling, boxcar, & icepick scarring (lucky me . . . a little bit
of it all :)!). Am wondering if anyone has any advice as to whether I should
give this a shot or if I should first try for needling. Don't know of anyone
doing needling nearby (am in north Florida), but am willing to travel to see
Lillian. However, if it wouldn't hurt to try Smoothbeam first I'd rather do
that given its proximity.Would appreciate any ideas someone may be able to give me. Thanks much, Tina
Hey Dandelion -- Denise1, 21:01:41 08/17/03 SunI hope I wasn't that tough! I was just being honest. I mean...I won't go out
without makeup either, but ya gotta do what ya gotta do...ya know? I have had
so much stuff done to my face in the past year or so that now I'm used to it.
You just have to force yourself to do it. The thing is that I just go straight
home with no other errands or side trips. I mean, so what if a perfect
stranger sees you in your car? Big deal? The people that work in these skin
care places are used to seeing screwed up skin, so I just don't worry about it
so much.But to answer your question, yes....if it says "Super" CP Serum, that's what
it is, though it is in the same package as the regular serum.
Hey Dandelion -- Denise1, 21:00:28 08/17/03 SunI hope I wasn't that tough! I was just being honest. I mean...I won't go out
without makeup either, but ya gotta do what ya gotta do...ya know? I have had
so much stuff done to my face in the past year or so that now I'm used to it.
You just have to force yourself to do it. The thing is that I just go straight
home with no other errands or side trips. I mean, so what if a perfect
stranger sees you in your car? Big deal? The people that work in these skin
care places are used to seeing screwed up skin, so I just don't worry about it
so much.But to answer your question, yes....if it says "Super" CP Serum, that's what
it is, though it is in the same package as the regular serum.
Info -- Holly, 07:57:48 08/17/03 SunDoes anyone know of someone who does needling for acne scars in the Tacoma, WA
area? Thanks
To Denise -- Dandelion, 04:49:33 08/17/03 SunDenise... LOL.... Well you might change your mind if a gun was really actually
held to your head.... it's amazing the things we will resort to when our lives
are threatened.
Your comment was only slightly insensitive yet it wasn't offensive... I know I
need to get over my phobia (and being seen without makeup is the biggest
phobia I have... family members have not seen me without makeup in ten
years... no one has... imagine putting an arachnaphobic in a room full of
spiders)...
Getting over this would be very liberating... and I don't like when people
placate my fears... so your 'get over it' attitude is apt. I do feel I can
possibly handle this with a little support.... I'm still clearing up, yet
within the next two months I would like to have the needling done. If anyone
knows of any places in San Diego that perform this., please let me know.
Otherwise, I will probably drive to Zulu Tattoo in LA.
Also Denise... I received the Super CP Serum in the mail today (or at least I
think it is the SUPER CP serum)It's in the same bottle as the regular CP
serum. The label says 'CP Serum' and NOT 'Super CP Serum...'... but there is a
little sticker on the back that says super cp serum.... is this what yours
came like?
Anyway, Denise.... and everyone else... thanks for continuing to post and for
being tough with me... smile..
Day 6 update Needling -- vs, 21:48:28 08/15/03 FriDay 6 update, well not much to say today,still the same as yeseterday. Some
areas that I didnt apply vasaline to, such as a scar inbetween my eyebrows,
because it melts with my body heat and drips into my eyes, look
hyperpigmented, I hope it didnt scar.
Now only time will tell if this helps my scars or not.
chemical peels -- meme^^, 10:40:52 08/15/03 FriI've been browsing through the net for infos on chemical peels..right now I
have indented acne scars with occasional breakouts..I really have no idea and
don't know which type of peels should i choose from?? Should it be
glycolic,lactic or salicylic peel?? I really need you guys to help me out
here?? I just dont wanna make my face look worse than before..it's really
frustrating!!! Can someone pls help me??
Pitted acne scars -- Nick Fisher, 05:13:37 08/15/03 FriHi all!
I am a post- adolescent acne damage sufferer. I have pitted scarring on my
cheeks forhead and temples that I distress over constantly. Im in Fla and want
to know more about needling. How much does it cost and can I have it done
anywhere in the southeast? I have been off accutane for three years. Will
needling be effective for me now or never since I was on accutane? After
reading the posts on this site it seems more promising to me. I was tired of
looking at countless numbers of sites on typic laser resurfacing and
dermabrasion procedures that are expensive, invasive, and not all that
successful in treating the valley, pitted like scars on my face.If someone would please post a reply to my concerns I would be sincerely
grateful
day 5 Update -- vs, 00:15:04 08/15/03 Friwell today most of my skin is back to normal skin tone, except some parts are
still pink and swollen. Havent noticed much improvement yet, some areas seem
to have nicer skin texture...but that just may be the swelling... who
knows...gotta wait and see.And ya Denise, 400 was a lot of money to pay, i only did needling because i
thought it was a cheaper alternative to drs, but if people raise their prices
then suddenly this wont be an option to us anymore. The person who did my
needling was very kind, i guess it was my mistake, i mis understood her
pricing or herd her incorrectly or something, but i had no choice but to pay.
I mean honestly i went to bb because other people on this site had good
results with them, but no one paid close to what i paid. Oh well, at this
point I can just hope it pays off.
Dandelion and VS -- Denise1, 23:52:20 08/14/03 ThuDandelion: I wouldn't do this myself to myself if you put a gun to my head!
You could do some serious damage to yourself. I don't mean to appear
insensitive because I normally don't go out without makeup either, but it's
something you'll just have to do. I mean, heck....I drove back for 2 hours
with red marks all over my face! OH WELL, what else can I do?!VS: Every single person who I know got needling said that they got the best
results from places that scabbed over. If you care for your skin properly, you
shouldn't have any problems at all with scarring....none. I scabbed over as
did everyone at www.acne.com and no one that I know who got needling done
didn't have some sort of scabbing. I kept emphasizing the importance of
keeping your skin moist to everyone there. I actually didn't think I would
scab over after my first needling because I didn't scab over until the second
or third day, and they fell off by the fifth. But I slathered emu oil and
jojoba oil all over my face and kept it very moist during the healing process,
as I understood the importance of that. Petrolatum causes terrible breakouts
for me so that was a no-no for me.I don't know why you were charged so much. Karen who used to post here said
that the guy in North Carolina who did her needling raised his prices
unbelievably after he caught on that this would be considered a "cosmetic
procedure". I don't know if that's what B&B did or not.
To John -- Sweety, 17:38:11 08/14/03 ThuJohn,
They told me Dr.Scheiber would be workig on something else(some research) and
Dr.Della Bruna would be treating Dr.Scheibner's patients and they had been
working together for several years and it would be exactly thr same. Maybe you
should call them and find out whats going on. Do you live in sydney?thanks so much
City Slicker -- Steve, 09:48:05 08/14/03 ThuAre you the one who is getting exoderm done by Dr. Rullan?
i recieved your Emails but everytime i try to send i get a return error.Its
like your email is down or something.. ill try emailing you again right now..
Steve - Exoderm Questions -- Cityslicker, 06:44:52 08/14/03 ThuSteve, are you still open to answering questions about Exoderm? Can you please
e-mail me or provide your e-mail address? Thank you!!! :-) Cityslicker
Amanda -- Steve, 03:10:34 08/14/03 ThuAmanda.. Where in LA do you get your needling? I get i from Zulu from Zulu
tattoo, but if i dont get the results i want i may try someone else.. Possibly
your artist
Thanks VS -- Dandelion, 03:10:21 08/14/03 ThuThanks for replying to my post so quickly VS. Please... when you find out what
kind of gun she used please let me know... Also...I'm sure it really hurts,
but perhaps a numbing cream like novocane cream or UMLA cream would help? I'd
like to have someone else do this for me.... but I just don't feel brave
enough to take my mask of heavy makeup off and face the public.... pride...
what a pain in the rear...
Needling prices -- Amanda, 02:38:55 08/14/03 ThuVS why did they charge you so much? My friend here in southern california
charges only 175 an hour for normal tattoo's and for acne scars 175 for your
entire face even if he goes over an hour. You could have flown to LA on
southwest airlines had needling here and still saved some money. This is
suppose to be a cheaper alternative to plastic surgeons yet you paid medical
doctor prices.
To Dandelion -- vs, 02:27:43 08/14/03 ThuDear Dandelion I am not sure what kind of tattoo machine was used on me.
However, I do think it was 5 needles in a row. I emailed the person who
performed needling on me and asked her what kinda machine she used and what
needle arrangement, other people have been asking me also--so till i get her
reply I wont know.
As far as tattooing your self, i'm sure its possible, except on some areas of
your face it really hurts, so its prolly easier to have someone else do it.
For example, areas around my jawline..hurt soooo badly...there is no way i
could tattoo that area my self.
Dandelion I guess the only advantage is you would save money. I paid 400 bucks
an hr at black and blue tattoo, I dont know why so much, other people who
orignially went to black and blue paid much less than me. People are emailing
me asking me why the heck I paid so much. And denise and greg..and others who
go to other tattoo artists pay about 100-150 an hr. A lot less than what I
paid. I didnt really realize it was 400 bucks untill after the session was
done, I must have mis-understood her pricing when we were talking. But the
treatment was over and I had no choice but to pay.
All I can do now is just hope the outcome was worth the 400 an hour.In comparison to subsicion from a plastic surgeon or dermatologist, subsicion
costs about 500 bucks at a plastic surgeons office, this cost me 400. So it
wasnt really very cost effective, and I had real results with subsicion, lets
hope needling pays off and gives real results.
Hello VS, Denise, and the board... -- Dandelion, 01:47:31 08/14/03 ThuHello VS, Denise and the board...
As sensitive and self conscious as I am about my skin... I cannot bear the
thought of leaving the house without makeup... or, worse yet... leaving a
clinic all swollen, red, bruised and oozing. The thought of it is a nightmare.
I have been thinking of self needling for awhile yet I have been holding
off... especially since my pesky acne came back (it is getting back under
control now.
I commend you for getting the procedure done by a professional... I am sure it
is the way to go.
VS... Are you still thinking of purchasing a tattoo gun for your own self
needling purposes?
I know Patrick on another board uses a gun with an 8 round... yet I hear this type
of gun is traditionally used to lining a tattoo, and a five flat is for
shading. From what I have heard and read..... the gun that works best on scars
is the one used for shading... 5 needles in a row. Is this true?
I heard that one of the tattoo artists using this procedure on patients
practiced on grapefruits before working on client's faces. I would practice
for awhile and test a scar on my leg before trying a test patch on my face...
but I figure why CAN'T I do this???... VS... Denise, anyone who has had
needling... any ideas or advice? What do you think?
Dandelion
To denise -- vs, 23:18:24 08/13/03 WedDear denise, NO i didnt scab. I'm sure if i let my skin open to the dry air it
would have scabbed. But I remember being told from 3 different drs that
scabbing causes scars. I've had full face laser, and dermabrasions and was
told in a firm voice by more than 1 dr "absolutly do not let your skin form a
scab or crust, make sure to contantly apply vaseline" There is no way i am
going to let my skin scab, even if it gives a better result. I am keeping it
moist with vasaline. Vaseline promotes the best healing.
You paid a good price Denise, the most expensive i have heard others pay was
150 an hour, I paid 400 an hr. That was kinda pricey.
VS -- Denise1, 22:50:46 08/13/03 WedOur tattoo lady out here, Lilian, I believe charges $100 per hour, which is
what I have paid. She only charges for the actual service, not the chatting or
consultation.Didn't you scab over?
DAY 4 needling update -- sanjoseskin@yahoo.com, 22:47:58 08/13/03 WedDay 4 of my needling update.
Well today my skin color is going back to normal. It is pinkish now instead of
redish brused looking and swelling has gone down even more. Again its too
early to see true results because my skin is still slightly swollen and pink.
Deniese -- vs, 07:06:06 08/13/03 Weddenise how much do you pay for your needling sessions?
VS -- Denise1, 23:51:30 08/12/03 TueYou probably won't see much for at least 4 weeks, and the swelling can last
for up to 7-10 days.The best guage is around 8-10 weeks, after collagen has filled in some scars.
My second needling has totally filled in my pits. I cannot believe it. I have
on foundation makeup right now and you literally cannot see them.AWESOME!
To VS -- Avril, 23:01:25 08/12/03 TueHi VS,
I am curious as to how you are progrssing with your recovery from the needling
treatment. I too am interested in visiting Black & Blue tattoo for needling,
but I have a few questions: First, who did your needling? How long did it
take? Any special instructions as to how to prepare for the treatment? How
about after care? Please keep me posted on your progress. I have mild/moderate
scarring on both sides of my face, and I feel that it would benefit from
needling.
Thanks in advance,
Avril
Day 3 Needling UPDATE -- vs, 22:58:06 08/12/03 TueHi.. its day 3 of my needling, and today most of the swelling and redness has
gone down, still too early to see any results because its still swollen and
red.
Sweety -- Lester, 04:13:52 08/12/03 TueSweety - I am very interested to hear about your filler experience. I am
scheduled to have Artecoll injections and any info you can provide would be
appreciated.What types of scars did you have? What degree would you have characterized
them: mild to severe? What percentage of improvement did you see to the scars
that were treated? Finally, how many treatments did you have?Sorry for the barrage of questions, but any information would be great.
Eric -- Steve, 02:30:36 08/12/03 TueEric i wanted to commen on your accutane situation..
I actually spoke to Dr. Rullan about when a one should do anything evasive
after accutane use.. And Dr. Rullan basiaclly told me that once your face is
oily, then everything should be alright..... I guess the problem with accutane
and doing anything invasive soon after using it, is that your face stays
somewhat dry for a period of time.. Apparently once your natural oils start
saturating your face again, then you should be able to go forward and get
laser, peel, etc done..
Sweety My Situation -- John, 01:13:25 08/12/03 TueSweety, I am sorry I forgot to answer your question.
In regards to me I dont really have many pits the ones I do have have been
filled up quite nicely with Acquamid and a product called Bio-Plastic, a
permanent filler with the same results as Collagen. My problem now is scars
which are called atrophic raised ones on top of the skin. The thing is I took
Roaccutaine and it made things so much worse for me. I wish I never took the
stupid drug. I know people think it is great but it wasn't great for me. If I
had my time I would have gone to Cairns for about three weeks and just sat in
the sun and sea water for a month and that probably would have cleared them
rather than have to have spent ten years to try and fix scars which a re
permanent.
Sweety -- John, 01:04:37 08/12/03 TueHey Sweety.
I was told that I will be seeing Doctor Schiebner herself as I was told she
was the only doctor there. And I had to wait eight weeks to see her.Anyway I will keep everyone posted. If I don't see her directly I will be
disappointed.
To John -- Sweety, 00:37:35 08/12/03 TueHi JOhn,
I am also interested in Dr.Schiebner's menthod. I spoke with one of her
assistants and she said that the treatment would be performed by some other
doctor(i dont remember her name) and not by Dr.Scheibner. Can you let me know
what type of scarring you have and how much they quoted you?Wish you good luck
BUSTED !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! -- MarcSheep, 23:14:44 08/11/03 MonHere's Brad Pitt going to have his acne scarring corrected by Dr. Mark Rubins
in Los Angeles......As reported by The Sun newspaper in Britain :http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2003370380,00.html
Dunno how long the link lasts see it while u can...
Here is the website - He probably had collagen injection, maybe Isolagen but
im not sure !!!!!!!!http://www.laskyclinic.com/tlc-about_dr_rubin.htm
Seems like a good derm, probably costs a fortune.....
Greg, Steve, and Eric..... -- Denise1, 22:32:34 08/11/03 MonGreg: So glad to hear that your scars are doing so well. Yeah, needling seems
to work on all kinds of scars; at least in MY case. What I did in my second
appt. was I took a green marker and a purple marker and I marked the scarred
pores and small pits that I wanted her to BARELY touch with the tatoo gun with
the green marker. The scars where I wanted her to be more invasive, I marked
with the purple marker. Everything is filling in nicely.Maybe one day I'll get up to D.C. on a Sunday and meet you guys. Though I
admit that I hate driving in D.C.!!!!
EWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Eric and Steve, I answered your questions here:
Wow Denise- I keep getting more and more excited when I read about your
progress... that is really excellent and exciting. Well, you and Greg have
both had such awesome results with Lillian... I'm thinking now that the next
time I take vacation I may just swing on over to Alexandria and having Lillian
handle the needling duties... you guys have had such remarkable success, I
think such a trip may well be worth it.***Well, if it's not out of your way or anything. But keep in mind you've got
Black and Blue and people have had good results there, too.A couple of questions for you... you said you use a deep salicylic acid peel
every couple weeks or so. Can you tell me where you buy that peel? I am a
little wary of using anything that will thin my skin too much because I am
still practicing the martial arts and I still get a few scrapes here and there
in boxing class... although nothing compared to what I got when I was using
Retin-A.***Go to: www.glycolicpeels.com and look on the left and click onto salicylic
peels. You may want to start out Eric with something that is less strong. This
is a STRONG PEEL that you should only use every 4-6 weeks, contrary to what
the site says. Since you've been on Accutane, you should start out with a
lower acid content peel. See if that works well for you, and move up slowly
and do test spots first to make sure you won't overreact to the acid or that
your skin is too sensitive.Also, Denise, you mentioned that some people who have been on Accutane do not
get good results with needling. It has been exactly one year since I
discontinued this treatment. Greg, I'm not sure but I think you have taken
Accutane before too and I think I will wait one more (two years) before I try
to get needling done where the skin's healing ability plays a vital factor.
What do you think of this idea...? Finally, I heard that Smoothbeam shrinks
the oil glands in the skin the way Accutane does. Will this impact the skin's
healing ability? If so, it may be wise to get all your needling done first
before you turn to Smoothbeam...***Well, that is an observation I've made. I've noticed that two classes of
people tend to have a harder time healing and not as good a results with
needling. People who have been on Accutane, and people who have had
dermabrasian. I think that every person who has had one of these two
treatments should do a test spot first before proceeding to other scars. You
may not have to wait for two whole years, Eric, I'm not sure. You could always
go to Black and Blue and do a test spot. You could also call and ask the
needling practitioners there and pick their brain about what they have
observed before you go, just to make sure you're not over or under doing it.Finally, I decided to go ahead and order the ZenMed system based on their
60-day money back guarantee and have been using it in combination with vitamin
B-5 for about 2 weeks and so far am getting very good results. The topicals
seem to work very well and I think my acne will very soon be under
near-complete control. I don't know if these great results are from the B-5 or
topicals only right now, but I am very happy about this... and I will continue
using both systems until I am acne-free and ready to deal with these scars...***I'm so glad to hear that! That's great news!
Denise and Eric -- Steve, 04:04:02 08/11/03 Mon
Denise, Have you had any problems with the Super Serum after needling routine?
Because im seriously considerding going with the super serum route now,
especially if it stimulate more collagen growth.. Ive put on the super serum
the last couple of nights and besides a little redness ive had no problems..***Hey Steve, if you're not having any problems, GO FOR IT!!! Some people are
just very, very, sensitive to it. If it's working for you, then apply it to
your needled areas and it will help clear up redness too, much quicker. But
you probably only want to apply it to the scarred areas.
Better to be safe than sorry.Take care everyone and it's great to see everyone so positive, upbeat, and
hopeful.
Greg, Steve, and Eric..... -- Denise1, 22:30:16 08/11/03 MonGreg: So glad to hear that your scars are doing so well. Yeah, needling seems
to work on all kinds of scars; at least in MY case. What I did in my second
appt. was I took a green marker and a purple marker and I marked the scarred
pores and small pits that I wanted her to BARELY touch with the tatoo gun with
the green marker. The scars where I wanted her to be more invasive, I marked
with the purple marker. Everything is filling in nicely.Maybe one day I'll get up to D.C. on a Sunday and meet you guys. Though I
admit that I hate driving in D.C.!!!!
EWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Eric and Steve, I answered your questions here:
Wow Denise- I keep getting more and more excited when I read about your
progress... that is really excellent and exciting. Well, you and Greg have
both had such awesome results with Lillian... I'm thinking now that the next
time I take vacation I may just swing on over to Alexandria and having Lillian
handle the needling duties... you guys have had such remarkable success, I
think such a trip may well be worth it.***Well, if it's not out of your way or anything. But keep in mind you've got
Black and Blue and people have had good results there, too.A couple of questions for you... you said you use a deep salicylic acid peel
every couple weeks or so. Can you tell me where you buy that peel? I am a
little wary of using anything that will thin my skin too much because I am
still practicing the martial arts and I still get a few scrapes here and there
in boxing class... although nothing compared to what I got when I was using
Retin-A.***Go to: www.glycolicpeels.com and look on the left and click onto salicylic
peels. You may want to start out Eric with something that is less strong. This
is a STRONG PEEL that you should only use every 4-6 weeks, contrary to what
the site says. Since you've been on Accutane, you should start out with a
lower acid content peel. See if that works well for you, and move up slowly
and do test spots first to make sure you won't overreact to the acid or that
your skin is too sensitive.Also, Denise, you mentioned that some people who have been on Accutane do not
get good results with needling. It has been exactly one year since I
discontinued this treatment. Greg, I'm not sure but I think you have taken
Accutane before too and I think I will wait one more (two years) before I try
to get needling done where the skin's healing ability plays a vital factor.
What do you think of this idea...? Finally, I heard that Smoothbeam shrinks
the oil glands in the skin the way Accutane does. Will this impact the skin's
healing ability? If so, it may be wise to get all your needling done first
before you turn to Smoothbeam...***Well, that is an observation I've made. I've noticed that two classes of
people tend to have a harder time healing and not as good a results with
needling. People who have been on Accutane, and people who have had
dermabrasian. I think that every person who has had one of these two
treatments should do a test spot first before proceeding to other scars. You
may not have to wait for two whole years, Eric, I'm not sure. You could always
go to Black and Blue and do a test spot. You could also call and ask the
needling practitioners there and pick their brain about what they have
observed before you go, just to make sure you're not over or under doing it.Finally, I decided to go ahead and order the ZenMed system based on their
60-day money back guarantee and have been using it in combination with vitamin
B-5 for about 2 weeks and so far am getting very good results. The topicals
seem to work very well and I think my acne will very soon be under
near-complete control. I don't know if these great results are from the B-5 or
topicals only right now, but I am very happy about this... and I will continue
using both systems until I am acne-free and ready to deal with these scars...***I'm so glad to hear that! That's great news!
Denise and Eric -- Steve, 04:04:02 08/11/03 Mon
Denise, Have you had any problems with the Super Serum after needling routine?
Because im seriously considerding going with the super serum route now,
especially if it stimulate more collagen growth.. Ive put on the super serum
the last couple of nights and besides a little redness ive had no problems..***Hey Steve, if you're not having any problems, GO FOR IT!!! Some people are
just very, very, sensitive to it. If it's working for you, then apply it to
your needled areas and it will help clear up redness too, much quicker. But
you probably only want to apply it to the scarred areas.
Better to be safe than sorry.Take care everyone and it's great to see everyone so positive, upbeat, and
hopeful.
Day 2 Needling UPDATE -- vs, 20:15:35 08/11/03 Monwell its day 2 of my needling. My skin is still swollen and red, no bleeding
or anything today. Still too early to see any results, cause its swollen and
red.
I'm still praying and keeping my fingers crossed!
To Denise & Greg -- Eric, 18:47:01 08/11/03 MonWow Denise- I keep getting more and more excited when I read about your
progress... that is really excellent and exciting. Well, you and Greg have
both had such awesome results with Lillian... I'm thinking now that the next
time I take vacation I may just swing on over to Alexandria and having Lillian
handle the needling duties... you guys have had such remarkable success, I
think such a trip may well be worth it.A couple of questions for you... you said you use a deep salicylic acid peel
every couple weeks or so. Can you tell me where you buy that peel? I am a
little wary of using anything that will thin my skin too much because I am
still practicing the martial arts and I still get a few scrapes here and there
in boxing class... although nothing compared to what I got when I was using
Retin-A.Also, Denise, you mentioned that some people who have been on Accutane do not
get good results with needling. It has been exactly one year since I
discontinued this treatment. Greg, I'm not sure but I think you have taken
Accutane before too and I think I will wait one more (two years) before I try
to get needling done where the skin's healing ability plays a vital factor.
What do you think of this idea...? Finally, I heard that Smoothbeam shrinks
the oil glands in the skin the way Accutane does. Will this impact the skin's
healing ability? If so, it may be wise to get all your needling done first
before you turn to Smoothbeam...Finally, I decided to go ahead and order the ZenMed system based on their
60-day money back guarantee and have been using it in combination with vitamin
B-5 for about 2 weeks and so far am getting very good results. The topicals
seem to work very well and I think my acne will very soon be under
near-complete control. I don't know if these great results are from the B-5 or
topicals only right now, but I am very happy about this... and I will continue
using both systems until I am acne-free and ready to deal with these scars...Keep up the faith guys and God Bless...
-E
Denise and Eric -- Steve, 04:04:02 08/11/03 MonDenise, Have you had any problems with the Super Serum after needling routine?
Because im seriously considerding going with the super serum route now,
especially if it stimulate more collagen growth.. Ive put on the super serum
the last couple of nights and besides a little redness ive had no problems..Eric, Im glad to hear from you.. Yeah, the next couple of months should be
interesting.. With Needling and this exoderm touch-up along with the topicals
im using im hoping for great results..Im about to purchase homes peels that Denise recommended and decided whether
or not i should purchase a dermaroller as well.. Im a bit excited but i dont
like to get my hopes up too much :D.. So we shall see, may Gods will be done..
needling is The Holy Grail -- greg, 01:28:12 08/11/03 Monhey folks,
Denise1 just answered my question- i was wondering if needling helps with
icepick scars- and apparently it does...i thought subcision & needling were
pretty much equals, but subcision does nothing for icepicks since it all
happens UNDER the skin, it only helps with sunken rolling scars...but needling
does it all, rolling AND icepicks....i've spent 5 years and 20-30 grand(i lost count:-) rebuilding my face- i just
now discovered needling, but i found it "too late" in a sense cuz i no longer
really care about eliminating every single scar on my face- i look good enuff
where i can take the gloves off and rest awhile- but if you are beginning your
scar repair journey the *first* thing you should try is needling cuz it may be
the *only* thing you need to do...i have done it all and each thing helped in
it's own way, but if i were starting over again i'd go the needling
route...it's cheap,low-tech, and it works....good luck on your journey!
Greg
Eric -- Denise1, 00:32:29 08/11/03 MonHey Eric!
I believe I tried ZenMed for at least 5-6 months (I believe I re-ordered at
least 3-4 times) and it just didn't seem to work for me. I'm thinking about
finishing up everything with some Smoothbeam treatments, but not too sure.As for my 3 week second needling update, all is well beyond my wildest dreams.
First off, the 5 pits that I *ALWAYS* harp on have improved to the point of
almost near eradication. A couple look like pores but nothing more. The larger
ones are almost gone. When I wear makeup, they don't look like holes anymore.
WEE HEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!The shallow scars she needled this time around are filling in fantastically as
well as the small scarred pore/pitted type scars beside my nose.I am thrilled beyond belief and yes Eric, some scars are completely filled in
and eradicated. The boxcar is just a purple mark pretty much.I really have to recommend Lilian for needling. She is the best! She has even
learned and improved her technique from the first time I went. I believe that
Greg has been very happy with his results as well.I think that this is probably the best and cheapest method of scar revision
around. It's non-invasive, and pretty darn cheap. You have to wait for a while
sometimes to see good results, but if you add peels, Retin A and CP Super
serum, you really should see good enough results to continue.Not to beat a dead horse but this really does work on ALL TYPES OF SCARS! I'm
not having to treat my pits with excision or punch graft, I'm not having to
treat my box car with something else, I'm not needing to do subcision on other
scars along with N-Lite.What I need help with most now is redmarks and the minor acne, which is why I
might go for Smoothbeam next. But I havn't decided yet. Perhaps I'll get
another miracle there!Anyway, that's the update. I actually need to e-mail Lilian and let her know
the latest update.Take care and let me know what's up with you, Eric.
God bless!!!
Day 1 Needling -- vs, 00:12:22 08/11/03 MonWell I had needling done on my acne scars today.
I went to Black And Blue Tattoo In SF.
The procedure was a combination of pain and no pain, In some areas such as my
temples I hardly felt anything, and other areas such as near my jaw
line--ouchy it HURT!
Right now i'm red and swowellen, slightly bleeding and oozing.I have to keep it moist with A/D ointment, OR Bactracin Ointment, or something
petroleum based.Now all I can do is sit here and wait, cross my fingers, pray to god and hope
the results come out good!
Scar Treatment -- Memnoch, 10:42:13 08/10/03 SunI believe many of us are sick and tired of looking for effective ways to
eradicate acne scars, most of which yield us poor results. Therefore i am here
to share with you perhaps the most effective method: fat transfer. Details
about this procedure can be found on the web and the results unlike collagen
fillers, can be very permanent. Many of us are spending money on uneffective
treatments and one day we turn around and realise we have spent a fortune. I
advise everyone to stop spending on useless methods and save up for fat
transplant. It may be costly but at least it's effective.
Hey Denise & Steve -- Eric, 06:50:47 08/10/03 SunHey Denise-
I just got back from vacation and am very happy to hear about your exquisite
results from needling. So, some of your scars have disappeared 100%, huh? This
is excellent news. God has answered your prayers and you have found your
miracle. That miracle may take different forms for others, but always remember
that in God, nothing is impossible! Simply ask and you shall receive.
EXCELLENT!! :)You mentioned that you tried the ZenMed system and it didn't work for you. How
long did you use the system before you discontinued it? Just curious...Hey Stevo... what's up dude? I think that it's great that you are going to Dr.
Rullan for another Exoderm touch-up along with your needling... and very cool
that the good doctor is helping you work around your different scar removal
methods. Keep using the Retin-A, Emu Oil, and Copper Peptides, and keep your
faith in God my friend. We all suffer, but it is our suffering that makes us
strong and brings us closer to God. And remember to have compassion and caring
for others who suffer as well. Fill the cup of happiness for others and enough
will overflow to fill your own cup to the brim...Now that I have left you with that bit of philosophy...
peace out ;)!!-Eric
cb & vs -- John, 04:01:51 08/09/03 SatCb & Vs thank you very much for your feedback.
Cb I will definately let you know of my visit. I had to wait seven weeks to
see her. I am from Sydney Australia. Her photos on the web are the only ones I
have seen that haven't been doctered as oppossed to other websites where the
before and after photos are taken under different lighting (a plastic surgeon
once told me how you can tell).Her method of using lasers, not resurfacing, but I would say in a similar way
to how lasers are used for eye correction surgery by using the light to do
under the skin is very encouraging. Especially considering you only need one
to three days off work.Don't want to get every one excited as I have been burnt so many times before
but I look forward to seeing her.
cb & vs -- John, 03:58:47 08/09/03 SatCb & Vs thank you very much for your feedback.
Cb I will definately let you know of my visit. I had to wait seven weeks to
see her. I am from Sydney Australia. Her photos on the web are the only ones I
have seen that haven't been doctered as oppossed to other websites where the
before and after photos are taken under different lighting (a plastic surgeon
once told me how you can tell).Her method of using lasers, not resurfacing, but I would say in a similar way
to how lasers are used for eye correction surgery by using the light to do
under the skin is very encouraging. Especially considering you only need one
to three days off work.Don't want to get every one excited as I have been burnt so many times before
but I look forward to seeing her.
John - Scheibner -- cb, 03:03:51 08/09/03 SatJohn-
Pea sized ammount of Retin-A is supposed to cover the whole face. Start
sparingly to see how your skin reacts, then you'll have an idea.Good luck w/your visit to Scheibner Center. Are you from Australia? Her method
sounds interesting. She's definetly a pioneer in the field of lasers. Please
report back on your consult, recommendation and prices quoted if you can?
There were rumors of her re-opening an office back up in the States. If you
could inquire about that--a lot of folks that visit this board would like to
know.Best regards,
cb
John - Scheibner -- cb, 03:02:51 08/09/03 SatJohn-
Pea sized ammount of Retin-A is supposed to cover the whole face. Start
sparingly to see how your skin reacts, then you'll have an idea.Good luck w/your visit to Scheibner Center. Are you from Australia? Her method
sounds interesting. She's definetly a pioneer in the field of lasers. Please
report back on your consult, recommendation and prices quoted if you can?
There were rumors of her re-opening an office back up in the States. If you
could inquire about that--a lot of folks that visit this board would like to
know.Best regards,
cb
JOHN RETIN-A -- vs, 09:45:58 08/08/03 FriJOHN.
Always follow your drs suggestion for retin-a use.
Usually you should not spot treat with retin-a. Usually the proper way to use
Retin A is to be applied all over the face, a very tiny small amount. Try
dabing a few dots on your forehead..cheeks and temple...then using your finger
smooth it into your skin all over...untill it becomes invisable and disapears.Never ever apply Retin-A and go under the sun at the same time. It is strongly
advised to avoid sun even with suncreen, although we are humans..we cant avoid
the sun at all times...so using an oil free broad spectrum sunscreen with
perferbably zinc oxide is the best thing to do when under the sun.
Also .05 cream is pretty strong and good. 1% percent retin A creme is the
strongest and many people can not tolerate it. I remeber first few months I
was on it..i could not use it more than 2 days in a row..my skin would turn
red like a crayon and peel and burn...but now i use it every night and my skin
has gotten use to it. As far as scarring is concerned...my dr perscribed 1% to
help the scarring... but i would have to say it doesnt really help for
scarring... maybe 1% improvement in overall clarity and smoothness.
help please -- Lisa, 02:37:36 08/08/03 FriHeyy, i have dry skin that flakes sometimes but when i use things like daily
cleansers it over dries my face even if it says it doesnt dry out, i hate
having any kind of pimple or anything on my face and im breaking out really
bad is there any kind of NATURAL recipe(since nothing else seems to work
without paying a fortun)that anyone has used and it has worked?? PLEASE LET ME
KNOW!!!!!!!
Retin A -- John, 01:06:29 08/08/03 FriHi Guys Just wondering if someone can give me a few tips on Retin-A. How much
do I put on each pimple and can I go out in the sun with sunblock or it is it
strictly a no no.Also I believe that there are two strengths the 0.05% which i use and the
0.1%. Is this correct and does anyone use the 0.1% as I am told this might be
good for scarring.Also to let you guys know I am seeing Doctor Sheibner who does the laser
treatment for scars next week as I am located in Syndey Australia. I will let
you know my thoughts.John
Thanks for the reply Morning Vs Night -- Kit, 15:24:35 08/07/03 ThuYa, i guess you guys are correct about the moisture things. Hey one of you was
even correct to say that if the moisture is there all the time, more than 50%
of the problems would have be gone. Now the thing is why can't we always have
that moisture or isn't there something to put on the face to facilitate that
kind of moisture or fluid thing?
strange, how come i am in the picture again? -- Kit, 14:59:55 08/07/03 ThuHi guys,
Thanks vs for bringing this up. Just to cut things short, well, most of what u
said were indeed correct..... actually I know abt the hypopigmentation and i
like it as my skin is fairer. Now it is occasionally pinkish. Well, i am kinda
disappointed because the Israel exoderm wasn't that great to what i have
expected. As for Dr rullan's treatment, i am not really that sure abt it. So i
withhold all comments I have on him.As for the reason why I haven't come back for a long time, it is simply
because of my 3 months holidays from school and I am playing Diablo 2
battle.net online almost every single day. It was fun :)Just happened to drop in to see u folks and suprised as I am, "how come I am
in the picture again"hahahahahahahhaa.
Dr.RULLAN EXODERM COMMENTS -- vs, 23:47:34 08/04/03 MonWell Dr. Rullan I thought it was necessary for me to touch basis with what you
said and make some additional comments.
Ok so you said you charge 3700 instead of the 5 grand other drs charge, to me
thats still too much money for doing nothing more than taking some sterile
sand paper..sanding my face..then putting phenol on my face.
Also, why is it that every Dr including freaking dermatology proffessors at
stanford I have talked to have said there is no way to make Phenol safe on the
skin without HYPOpigmentation (whitening of the skin). Are you telling me that
one of the nations best medical schools is not up to date on its medical
information? Are you telling me that something so wonderfull, which gives such
a high profit margin to the Dr, something with such great results and is SAFE,
has been SIMPLY JUST overlooked by drs and not widely used in US? Only a few
drs in the US including you perform exoderm. Gee wiz if it was so great and so
risk free, wouldnt more drs abandon the price of costly laser machines--avoid
thousands of dollars purchasing or renting the machine...and opt for something
cheap like the exoderm solution which yields high profit margin. And dont try
to give me your exuse for "2 day surgery" costs. Your not performing brain
surgery.. your prolly taking an 1 hour worth of surgery time to quikly sand
the skin, apply the freaking phenol which takes a few mins..bandage the face
and send the patient home. You make it sound like your in surgery for 2 whole
days.
Also dr rullan, have you followed patients long term...meaning at least over 2
yrs to see if their skin has hypopigmented yet. Hypopigmentation can start to
show up as long as 18 months after a phenol peel for heavens sake...and for
some folks who stay red for like 3 yrs.. they may start to show
hypopigmentation after 3 yrs.. Have you followed patients that long dr?Another thing..I have not yet met 1 single person to contact me and tell me
their results equalled the great results of the website of exoderm. Infact I
have received a few emails from people who have had the procedure performed
elsewhere telling me how horrible their results were. One lady who emailed me
over a yr ago said her entire face is ugly pale white after exoderm and no
longer holds a tan or tans..only burns, and the rest of her body tans..which
makes her look awkward with a ghostly white face and tan body.I must also let you all know..Dr Rullan and the exoderm website claim its safe
for all skin types. However, I had a consult appoitment about 1.5 yrs ago with
Dr.Ed Becker in walnut creek california about exoderm. Dr. Becker told me the
opposite of what Rullan And exoderms website are saying. Dr. Becker told me
Exoderm IS NOT SAFE FOR ALL SKIN TYPES, most patients run a very high risk of
hypopigmentation. Dr. Becker also had me raise my armpits to look at my skin
color untanned--and he said "your olive toned... you run a very high risk of
both hyperpigmentation or hypopigmentation from exoderm...you may bleach out
or get darker." At least he was honest.So dr rullan what do you have to say about all this? And can you please tell
us exactly HOW LONG YOU HAVE BEEN PERFORMING the exoderm procudure...and have
you followed patients for at LEAST 5 yrs after exoderm to see changes in long
term pigment?also what has happend to poor KIT...last time we heard from KIT was months
ago..and Kit was disapointed about her/his exoderm treatment... does anyone
know how KIT is doing? Poor thing prolly regrets his/her decision and is so
angry that he/she no longer goes into this chat.These are my thoughts..and if anyone thinks i'm being too harsh or rude, well
I just dont franky care. I AM SPEAKING MY MIND..IF YOU DONT LIKE IT... TUFF
COOKIE... Tired of B.S. Dr.s thinking just because they are drs they have a
right to lie and cheat patients.
Steve -- Denise1, 20:06:30 08/04/03 MonSteve, I started using the SUPER serum right after my second needling. As soon
as I got home from my 2 hour drive, I began applying the SUPER serum with emu
oil. I applied this 3-4 times a day until the scabs fell off. I now use it
morning and night.After my scabs fell off, I immediately began applying the Retin A again.
When I got my first round of needling done on April, I didn't have the SUPER
serum yet, but had been using the regular CP Serum. I didn't start using the
SUPER serum until 3-4 weeks after I got my first needling done. I saw such a
drastic improvement after I started using the Super serum that I have just
kept using it ever since, and started using it right away this time after I
got home.Just make sure your skin is used to the SUPER serum before you try to put it
on after needling. It may sting a bit. Try to use it least 2-3 weeks before
you get your needling done. I hope your skin isn't sensitive. Sometimes people
can have very sensitive skin and the peptides is very hard on them. If it
stings really bad, use it every 2-3 days, and work up to every day. But again,
I must stress that you must have your skin used to it before applying it
during your healing phase.Another thing to is that Dr. Pickert recommends that people start out with the
REGULAR CP SERUM at first, then work up to the SUPER serum. It can be pretty
strong for people.I don't know if you have used the REGULAR serum at all, but if you havn't, you
really need to break your skin in really well before you just start applying
the SUPER serum. If you don't have time to use the regular serum, start with
the SUPER serum and see what happens. Hopefully, your skin isn't overly
sensitive. If it is too harsh, use it every other or every third day until you
work up to every day use slowly.So you might want to start now if you've never used it. I hope your skin
tolerates it well!Godspeed and keep everyone posted.
Denise -- Steve, 03:41:55 08/04/03 MonHi Denise i have a real quick question for you..
I know the skinbio site recommends that upon any invasive facial procedure
such as laser and needling they say to use the CP Serum and EMU oil
immediately upon the conclusion of the procedure..My question is.. Have you tried using Super CP Serum along with EMU oil
instead of the regular Cp Serum as your post needling treatment?And if not.. How long did you wait before you added the Super Serum and Retin
A back into your skin care regiment?Im thinking about using the Super Serum as my post needling treatment.. But
maybe it will be to harsh?Any help would be great.. Thanks
Something regarding needling -- Steve, 04:00:12 08/03/03 SunHey guys.. I wanted to touch on something real quick regarding needling..
I remember when i got my last needling session with my tatoo artist that he
didnt really stretch out my skin as much as he should have when hitting my
scars..Thats something im going to be specifically focus on this time
around..Stretching out the SKIN TIGHTLY while he's hitting the scarred areas..
Dr. Rullan even stated that there should be emphasis on stretching out the
skin when hitting the scarred areas..So those of you getting needling just remember to stretch out your skin
tightly when getting needled...
HI Guys.. A Quick Update -- Steve, 03:56:36 08/03/03 Sunhey guys i wanted to give you guys another update..
I just saw Dr. Rullan yesterday and we discussed a few things such as needling
and exoderm.. Dr. Rullan is going to give me another exoderm touch up in one
months time before which i will be having another needling session..Im going to go in for my needling session on the 12th of month then once i
heal i will be going in for an exoderm touchup on my scars..I just recieved my Super Serum and regulary peptides from skin Bio along with
the EMU oil.. So these next couple of months should be interesting...Dr.
Rullan also gave me a bunch of samples of this type of Retin A that is a
stronger version.. It has .005 instead of the .001 of that main ingredient in
Retin A; i forget what its called but i know it starts with the letter
T..LOL...Im kind of excited of what my results will be like.. Im combining all these
topicals along with my needling and exoderm touchup.. Who knows what may
happen.. Wish me luck guys..And ohh yeah its been 1 1/2 years since my original exoderm lift in which i
have gotten the 3rd phase exoderm done along with Dr Rullan going over my
scars with a type of laseer, i forget which one.. i had these procedures done
probably about 1 year ago with minimal success..And NOw Dr. Rullan is going to be touching my scars up again with Exoderm with
his new advance techniques for scar repair absolutely Free.. Dr. Rullan is
truly an amazing Dr... THis was the first time i had seen him in like 5
months, and he still sticking with me until the end...DOing everything
possible to ensure i get great results..Thank you Dr. RUllan, you are truly the BEst
Brad Pitt et al -- Marc, 02:09:40 08/03/03 SunDoes anybody think that it may be a good idea to approach celebrities such as
BRAD PITT, BILL MURRAY, RAY LIOTTA, VICTORIA BECKHAM, LIZ HURLEY, CAMERON
DIAZ, TOMMY LEE JONES, ROBERT DAVY, JAMES WOODS and LAURENCE FISHBOURNE (Any
other offers ???????) about their acne and acne scarring with the aim of
increasing awareness and demonstrating that even acne scarred people can be
successful ? And judging by this list a significant number of the upper
echelons of society are skinperfect (imperfect - get it.....BOO !) Perhaps its
the scarring and desire to prove people wrong that spurs them on to
greatness........Any suggestions on how to contact them and what to say would
be welcomed.....We cant simply lay into Pitt because he has had successful
scar treatment without giving him a chance to speak out....And besides, would
we want to have our faces scrutinised by drawing attention to our scars as his
opening up would do....? I know I can barely stand to talk about
them.........Just A Thought.....Marc
Lilian the needling lady coming to our meeting Sunday:-) -- greg, 21:23:55
08/02/03 Sathey gang,
Lilian the needling lady will be at our group's meeting Sunday 12 noon here in
D.C. if you wanna rub shoulders with a bonafide celeb of the scar repair
world- she is the current media darling and all the hype is deserved- needling
is cheap and effective and she is the only one that does it in the area??...i
asked her to bring the actual tattoo gun to meeting so we can see/touch it to
remove some of the fear/mystery ....hope you can join us!
Greg(who is getting rather jealous of Lilian's fame...hey- i run the world's
*only* real-life support group for acne scarring- doesn't that mean anything
anymore??!!;-)
Thanks, Denise -- John, 03:52:50 08/02/03 SatThanks very much, Denise, for addressing my disappointment with Dr. Pickart's
products. I will check out the website you mentioned and I really appreciate
you taking the time to give me all that good information. Thanks again.
John -- Denise1, 19:19:18 07/31/03 ThuJohn, I have found that the best results with copper peptides happen when
combined with a peel. Dr. Pickart says this on his site as well. Although I
use Retin A nightly, I do a very strong salicylic acid peel every 3-4 weeks.
About 7-10 days after that peel, I notice scars start to fill in. I have some
of those scarred pores that are almost gone. They were too small to needle,
but some of there are totally gone. Maybe you think your scars look prominent
because your skin has greater clarity and tends to tighten up after you peel.
Peels don't really make scars worse per se, unless you are totally sensitive
to glycolic acid. If not, it is probably just that your skin has tighten and
the appearance of the scar seems a bit worse. I think that happens to almost
everyone.The lady I went to is in D.C. and uses a tattoo gun.
Needling -- John, 12:03:28 07/31/03 ThuI am new to this board and I'm finding the posts here fascinating and really
informative. Does anyone know how I can find a reputable physician in northern
NJ to do needling on my skin? Also, I have been using Dr. Pickart's Exfol
Serum and Super Copper Peptides Serum for about 5 months and I've noticed no
change so far. It seems to me that Copper Peptides moisturize the skin more
than anything else. Unfortunately, I have yet to attribute any amazing
scar-healing qualities to their use. And I have also noticed in the past that
the use of glycolic acid products seems to WORSEN some of my acne scars, or at
least, makes them more prominent. I have no idea why... Anyway, the point is,
I'm tired of the "topical treatments that don't seem to work" route...I want
to try needling and I would be grateful if anyone has any suggestions on how I
can find someone in my area who is qualified to do this procedure. Thanks very
much for any help or suggestions.
Steve, Eric, and anyone else interested.... -- Denise1, 19:30:38 07/30/03 Wed
Steve, you are the poster child for: Wait 8 Weeks before assessing whether or
not needling works.Precisely what happened to me on a few of my scars. It's almost like you wake
up on day and go: WOW!Anway, for everyone, my latest update is that 2nd needling seems to have
totally 100% filled in/eliminated some of my scars. I'm so happy and excited.
The pits are all almost gone since the second needling. Places that she didn't
needle the first time look to be responding well also.I cannot stress how happy I am to have found something that has worked so well
for me.I may have to go for a third needling session, not too sure. A lot of the
shallow scars and small scarred pores she did this time look already to be
filling in really well already.But from where I'm sitting, all looks well and I'm truly excited and happy to
share this with all of you.Keep the faith everyone and keep searching for what works for you.
Eric: I tried ZenMed and it didn't work for me. SORRY!
Needling Update -- Steve, 02:47:00 07/29/03 TueHey Guys.. I wanted to give you a quik update on my progress..
The last week or so has been quite strange..It seems as though one of my scars
on my temple as all but filled in for the most part, leaving a line instead of
a flat scar.. I dont know if im just seeing things or what.. But its been
almost 2 months since my needling session, and it looks like it just now
started really to fill in.. Just that one particular scar.. It gives me a bit
more hope, im going to be getting another one done on the 9th or 10th of the
month, this time with CP serum and EMU oil..So Keep the faith guys.. This needling stuff may really do wonders for our
scars..Bye
Isolagen and Celebrities -- VS, 00:49:39 07/29/03 TueI have an Idea about Brad Pitts Face. I been in contact with the Vice
President of Isolagen, and he told me several big time celebreties with acne
scars and wrinkles have been isolagen patients with great results. Maybe Bradd
Pitt got Isolagen to get rid of his scars. The VP wouldnt give me exact names.
Another thing that pissed me off, if Isolagen is not FDA approved yet, why do
celebrties get to have it done, obviously a double standard here. Maybe
celebrties fly to europe where its approved, but I highly doubt that. I bet
you anything Isolagen is running a double standard..maybe with some financial
gains, and performing Isolagen on celebs. This freaking pisses me off,
especially since he said he does not expect Isolagen to be approved in the US
till late 2004 at the earliest. He said the reason for such late approval was
paper work, cant they freaking spead up the paperwork? Some things just dont
make sense to me.
Another thing..I agree Eric. Bradd pitt is a jerk, living in his own little
world. He does not care about anyone else suffering with scars, or else he
would talk about his scar and scar treatments. All celebs are arrogant people
with big heads and dont care about anyone but themselves and their image.
Ugh...ok enough venting for today. take care you all.
thanks for the dermaroller info Maya, et al -- amez, 21:56:38 07/28/03 MonI did end up ordering this tool, so I thank you for the info. We'll see if it
works. My scar healing is coming along nicely with the super CP serum. The
ones that were kind of prominent along my temple have virtually disappeared.
The ones around my smile lines are a little resistant but making steady
progress. I've also been doing a fango: borgeisi (sp?) mud mask twice weekly.
This feels really good and is very tingly, which tells me it's getting to the
deeper layers of the skin...I agree with the assessment that Brad Pitt's face looks great and that he's
definitely had some major surgery to get it to its present level. I also agree
with Eric's thinking that technology is out there, or in development that can
help us plebes someday. I too wish he'd just come clean and let the community
know what's been done--sad that these cures are only available to the
EXTREMELY rich.Here's a dating question for ya'll. When you are first meeting someone and
want to test the waters to see if there's relationship potential, do you make
sure that the first few dates are in good lighting situations? Or, do you go
to places with stark lighting to make sure that they know you have the
problem, and if they don't like it, to get lost. I don't want people to be
suddenly surprised if they see me in a different light later on and get
freaked. In some lights you can't see the scarring as much. Do i sound nuts?
Just seeking advice from the bretheren.--amy
Brad Pitt's Face & ZenMed DermaCleanse -- Eric, 07:46:34 07/28/03 MonHi all-
VS, I was very interested when you brought up the topic of Brad Pitt's face
and how smooth it looks. I noticed the same thing myself, and I think that the
point where I noticed a definite improvement in his scars was first in the
movie "Spy Game". Previous to that, in films like "Meet Joe Black", "Interview
With the Vampire", "The Devil's Own", and "Seven Years in Tibet", and "Fight
Clib", Pitt had prominent acne scarring. Sure, it could be disguised,
sometimes to the point where it was invisible in some scenes, but the guy
obviously had scars. When I rewatched "Spy Game" and later "Ocean's Eleven" on
DVD, I noticed right away, "hey, this guy's scars are gone!". Well not
completely gone. I think that there was maybe one scene in each movie when the
camera was close up and the lighting just right when I could see a few
pinprick scars on Pitts' face, but nothing like his old ones. Even in really
bad, nasty lighting (like in "The Mexican"), Pitt's scars were so superficial
as to be invisible. Heck, maybe they are gone completely now. While I don't
know if every last one of Pitt's scars is completely gone, I do know that in
the tabloids and TV interviews in the last couple of years, his face looks
pretty much perfect. I think it's sad that Pitt, who has undoubtedly suffered
the same emotional pain we have over our scars, has never talked about his
treatments for the scars. As a fellow sufferer myself, I would want to share
the joys of my discoveries with others in hopes of erasing their pain and
suffering. But hey, on the other hand... look at it like this: Pitt's scars
are gone, or if not gone, minimized to the point that for all intents and
purposes, they no longer exist. Ahem, OK all you plastic surgeons and derms, I
thought you all said that there was no way for scars to be completely erased
huh? THEN WHY THE HELL DOES BRAD PITT NO LONGER HAVE ANY SCARS????!! LOL,
people, this should give you hopes and inspiration instead of frustrating and
discouraging you. Pitt had some nasty dents... and they are gone now. If the
technology and techniques exist to do it now, then there is no reason that we
cannot achieve similar results. Keep the faith, my friends!!While we are on the subject, has anyone ever heard of, or used the ZenMed
Derma Cleanse acne system? It consists of a topical cleanser and gel and a
Derma Cleanse herbal blend consisting of some traditional western herbs and a
wide variety of Eastern herbs from traditional Chinese medicine. The
combination is supposed to get rid of acne and, after acne is clear, the acne
is supposed to STAY away with no need to continue the system, similarly to
Accutane, because the herbs are supposed to get to the root of the problem (
balancing androgens and removing toxins) and once the problem is take care of,
the acne cannot return. I thought the idea was somewhat hokey at first, but it
needs to be remembered that there are many herbs that have been medically
proven by science to be as effective or more so than traditional drugs in
treating ailments... St. John's Wort and Milk Thistle are two great examples.
But anyway, just wanted to know if anybody has used this system or heard
anything about it.Be strong my friends...
-Eric
acne and acne scarring -- joe, 23:49:38 07/27/03 Suni had acne problems of the worst kind for years.i had everything from accutane
to anti-biotic and retin a cream without suscess until i tried an anti
androgen med called spironlaction.no breakouts for 9 months now.i have had a
co2 laser resurfacing done and a thermage done about 7 months apart.im still
waiting for the slow results of the thermage.one more thing spirolation might
make males sterile so u have to make a choice on how bad acne bothers u.
vs -- d, 21:22:39 07/27/03 Sunwhere are brad pitts new pictures? New skin?
vs -- d, 21:21:35 07/27/03 Sunwhere are brad pitts new pictures? New skin?
Copper Peptides -- julie, 12:12:05 07/27/03 Sunhi, i just received my order of trireduction p+r basic and exfol cream. i have
been using them for two days now and i have noticed a smoothening effect on my
skin. i have mild scars/ red dots on my skin from long ago - i am wondering
how long it will take to see a noticeable difference.. already i have noticed
that a tiny hole near the side of my nose has filled in and this has just been
two days. i hope it will get rid of all the red dots on my skin. i am asian,
and i have pale skin and even mild redness is very obvious and i wish i could
live in someplace colder.julie
Bradd Pitts Face -- vs, 08:13:28 07/27/03 SunHas anyone noticed how scar free brad pitts face is lately? I remember seeing
him yrs ago with scars all over both his cheeks, and now close up in untouched
photos his face is 100 percent scar free. what the hell? hows this possible?
was that full beard he was sporting..really a disguise for his face to heal up
without people knowing? he must have done something, his face is like so
smooth..he doesnt even have pits no more. what the hell did he do, this isnt
fare..do we have to be a rich celebrity for Dr's to treat us with a miracle
like they did brad.
Amez - about the Roll-cit -- Maya, 01:31:37 07/27/03 SunI bought the dermaroller, which is similar to the roll cit - but for home use
(non invasive). I use it twice a week. It definately gets the copper peptides
and retin-a deeper into the skin.I bought mine for US $37 from http://www.lipoxidil.com/derma.htm
roll-cit -- amez, 18:58:44 07/26/03 Satanyone heard of a roll-cit product? i'm thinking seriously about ordering one.
it's an at home needling solution. i'm thinking this would enhance the copper
peptide serum i use. and since i can't find a tatoo artist in my area who
knows what needling is and i'm not brave enough to buy my own machine, this is
a mid-point solution.
thoughts anyone? also, not sure how much this costs since the info on the site
is rather vague.
re: at home laser -- Tamara, 03:19:45 07/26/03 SatJet - could you please share more information about the laser for home use?
Thank you!
losing hairline with proactive -- fafafa, 23:35:22 07/22/03 Tuei've been using proactive for a long time and it's working fine for me.but i
notice that i'm losing some hair on my hairline.in my family nobody sufers
from hair lost and i don't use any hair product.not even coloring.does anybody
have the same problems or has some answers for this? please help.by the way
i'm a female.and sorry for my bad english...
needling update:-) -- greg, 13:31:42 07/22/03 Tuehey folks,
needling post-op 5 weeks later looks good-forehead area plumping up....just
realized a good rule of thumb for scar repair- the worse you look after the
operation(the more banged up you look) the better the result...you gotta
destroy to create:-):-(our group's next meeting is August 3rd Sunday 12 noon if you're in the area!
see ya
Greg
at home laser -- Jet, 06:09:32 07/21/03 MonDid anyone see the blurb in Fitness Magazine about the laser designed for in
home use? According to one of their testers it worked pretty well on some of
her stretch marks. Suposed to be fairly effective for acne, scars, and
wrinkles. It costs a couple hundred dollars and I'm getting tired of shelling
out money for junk but I might try it anyway. Always a sucker for anything
that purports to stimulate the ol' collagen.
posts -- M, 15:01:10 07/20/03 Sun-----Does anyone know how to make the web site accept posts?
Posts - CGI
Chat - Many webmail programs have chat options.
Peace
M
Website -- vs, 03:23:55 07/20/03 SunMaking a web site is not as easy as I thought, especially if you never have
before. Does anyone know how to make the web site accept posts? i want a
chat/post section.
any help would be helpfull.
Dr. RULLAN -- Steve, 01:36:13 07/20/03 SunDr. Rullan!!!!!!!!!!!!!.. How are you, this is Steve...
I do so apologize for not going into your office in such a long time.. But im
about to make an appointment to go see you...
I tried the needling procedure with minimal success.. So ill definitely want
to check in with you to give an idea of my progressGood to hear from you :)
Exoderm comments correction: -- Dr. Rullan, 20:01:49 07/19/03 SatTo VS: I'm sorry you still quote erroneous facts about me and what I do.
Please read:1. I charge $3,700 for Exoderm.That includes the cost of the product for $400,
anesthesia, 2 days of surgery time, 3 free Echo-2 Oxygen facials to reduce
redness, and free touch-ups. I'm now charging $2,000. for a milder version of
a modified phenol.2. Occluded, 2-day chemo-abrasion touch-up peels are essential to achieve even
better results. My prior touch-ups were not as effective as my recent ones
using this new technique. Fortunately, touch-uos are only needed in small
areas and heal much quicker.3. Most doctors know very little about this technique. I'm presenting it for
the first time to an international audience this coming January at the annual
convention of the American Academy of Cosmetic Surgery in Florida.4. I thank you all for your continued search into treatment options for acne
scars. I always enjoy reading your stories..and I learn from you. God Bless
you all, Dr. Rullan.
To: "vs" on Exoderm, ect. -- Dr.Rullan, 19:49:27 07/19/03 Sat"VS" continues to suggest I'm a fraud and that I charge $5000 for Exoderm. I
don't think I'll change his/her opinion of me but his facts are wrong as I'll
try to clarify for the upteenth time.1. I charge $3700 for an Exoderm which includes free touch-ups, Echo-2 Oxygen
facials and camouflage make-up. It costs me $400 to buy the Exoderm. Some
doctors do charge $5000. I've learned that occluded phenol touch-ups are
essential for atrophic and some pitted scars. Some of my prior touch-ups were
not occluded and did't work as well as I expected. The 2-day chemo-abrasion
technique is essential even with touch-ups(usually done on small localized
areas so the healing is easier and faster).2. I charge $2000 for a non-exoderm milder phenol peel using the Exoderm
technique.3. Most doctors know very little about these new modified phenol peels. My
abstract called "Phenol Chemoabrasion technique for deep acne scars and
wrinkles" will be presented at the "New Horizons" segment of the American
Academy of Cosmetic Surgery Annual Convention @ Hollywood, FL in Jan29-Feb1.
2004. Ask your doctors to attend.4. I'm presenting this information so that your own doctors can learn about
and possibly start using this wonderful new treatment.5. I thank all of you that continue to write and analyse treatment options for
acne scars. All doctors should read this information. I felt I had to write to
coorect and defend what I saw as incorrect and pejorative comments made by
"vs". God Bless you all, Dr. Rullan.
Rob -- Denise1, 17:30:36 07/19/03 SatI agree with you. I had some pits on the side of my nose that had been like
holes in my skin that couldn't be covered by makeup or anything. After using
the copper peptides and doing peels for over a year, they have reduced
significantly. I had them needled on Thursday. But in all honesty, I was
looking at them before the needling and marked them to be needled, and I
couldn't believe how much they had shrunk. Much more like scarred pores now,
or enlarged pores, but not pits or scars.One thing to note here is that the SUPER serums are what work best for
scarring.I have read what Catlover has had to say too and he has pitted scars and is
very pleased that in 6 months, he has a 50% improvement.I think the problem is that people want an overnight miracle and copper
peptides and peels aren't an overnight miracle. However, over time, they are
by far, far more effective than anything else out there; and that includes
having multiple TCA peels, microderm, and a plethora of other low cost (and
high cost) things people are doing to help their acne scars.When I went and got my second needling on Thursday, I showed Lilian the scar
under my eye that is literally disappearing before my eyes since I've started
using the Super serum about 10 weeks ago. She was amazed. I had a small scar
by my eye that is totally gone (that one wasn't needled either).The super serum is like a miracle. I am absolutely amazed at the stuff. And
yes, it works amazing on pits. I cannot say it will work miracles on large,
deep scars and major icepicks, but I think that it can help tremendously with
any other procedures people are having done, like subcision, excision,
needling, non ablative lasers, etc...BTW VS, if you are reading this, Dr. Pickert is a scientist, not a
dermatologist or whatever. He may have been confused by some of the
terminology about needling. I've heard needling called about 3 different
things since I've had mine. I forgot what Lilian said they called it when she
was trained in it at a seminar, but it wasn't needling. So bare with him......Will let everyone know how the second needling went and the latest results. So
far, I'm a scab covered monster!:-)
VS RE: Skin Bio and Dr Pickhart -- Rob, 01:42:52 07/18/03 FriFirstly let me say that I understand you being sceptical but I have to tell
you that if you did read all of the web site and that includes clinical trial
information and even researched Dr Pickart himself you would see that your
skeptiscm is unfounded.I have used copper-peptides and exfoliation cream and also weekly Glycolic
peel faithfully for six months now to treat acne scars that were hypertrophic
and located on my upper arms and shoulders. I have results that are bordering
on excellent. I can also say that I have tried many other forms of treatment
including all various forms of laser (ablative and non ablative) with no real
results to speak of.This is the first form of treatment that actually has reduced the size of my
scars.Of course we are all different and to be honest I think that this topical form
of treatment has its limitations depending on the severity of each individuals
scars.I would recommend that you visit delphi forums and look up the skin biology
forum and exchange views with current users of their products.I have followed three forums devoted to scar treatments and over the last 8
months I have seen many reports on all kinds of treatments.If I had the more common form of acne scarring I think I would opt for
needling followed by the use of copper-peptides.I would think that there would be some improvement for most individuals but of
course not all.The way it stands at the moment the truth is that there is no guaranteed when
it comes to scar removal.Let me finish by saying that I am in no way affiliated with any organization
and this I swear on all things dear to me.I chose to use skin bio products because after a couple of months researching
and also all the experiences I have had previously, I believed that this
product would provide the best course of action for me.I am in no way saying that I know for sure that it would work on pitted
scarring but after exchanging views with others with pitted scarring that use
this product I get the impression that those that are patient and do not stray
with their regime tend to get good to excellent results.There is one person in particular that claims to have experienced 50%
improvement with the use of copper peptides and that is over a period of
months and I would assume that improvement would continue.That person is named catlover and can be found in the delphiforums.
He has pitted scarring and that is why I mention him. I hope he doesn’t mind
but I am sure we will all agree that we are all here to help each other and at
the same time help ourselves.One final point I will make is that Dr Pickart was responsible for patents
that went into the making of Neutrogena products and they are widely
recognised to be of sound quality. Having said this the fact is that
skin-bio's current copper-peptides are of a superior nature.All the best to all.
Rob
Made A Decision -- vs, 01:52:02 07/17/03 ThuSorry I cant spell today,
Anyways I made a decision just now to hold off on experimental stuff and go
with what I know has worked in the past. I have a derm appointment coming up
soon, and I'm going to ask my Dr to do 1 more..my 5th Subsicion...and ask him
to do a deep dermasanding on my cheeks. I think I might just be acne scar free
after that, I've had like 90 percent improvement with that combo in the past,
so i think i should just stick with it. The only thing I hate is the recovery
time of the sanding,,it takes a whole yr of pinkish waxy ugly looking skin,
yucky.
So ya i'm going to ask him if thats a good idea..if i go through with it..i'll
let you all know my final results.
Steve H -- vs, 01:19:14 07/17/03 ThuI must say, I kind of agree with steve--although I can see how his posts can
make people pissed at him. I mean--when i read the www.skinbiology.com
website, it looked like nothing more than a person who made a website, and
makes claims that we have no idea are true or not. Its a website about how
great his copper peptides are. I mean it would really be interesting to
contact UCSF and find out if those clinical trials he refers to on
www.skinbiology.com are true or false. Someone should really contact UCSF and
find out if this is true or if that dr and website is making up all that B.S.
Who knows UCSF might even say "who the heck is Dr.Pickart" or they might say
"yes dr pickart and his miracoulous copper peptides!!!" Anyone willing to Call
UCSF and find out?
I must also say I never ever believed in exoderm or Dr.Rullan--- I mean if dr
rullan truly cared about patients like he makes him self sound...he wouldnt
charge close to 5 grand for exoderm, when he himself said the solution can be
mixed for cents.. Thats like a pure 5 grand profit..(minus anesthisia if
needed) If i was a Dr, I dont think I would charge that much for a procedure
that costs very little to produce, that seems like rip-off fraud to me. I was
one of the original people months back who called Dr.Rullan and exoderm a
Fraud and everyone yelled at me, and I suddenly became scared to post on this
site for speeking my mind. So i think Steve your posts--although agrivating at
times--are usefull and I say "keep posting" none of us should go crazy over
someones opinion.
VS- Needling in Bay Area -- Eric, 21:57:15 07/16/03 WedHey VS-
Before you go out and buy a tattoo machine of your own, I think you should try
to get the needling procedure done for you by someone who has extensive
experience in the matter. I know you said you had some difficulty finding
artists who would perform this. Thanks to Denise and some of the old posts
here in the archive, I found out about a tattoo artist named Idexa who works
at a place in San Francisco called Black N' Blue Tattoo Parlor. You really
should make an appointment with her... there were several posts a while back
from people who were very pleased with their results. I think this is cheaper,
easier, and safer than buying your own machine and performing on yourself.To John H: keep sending us your posts! I find them to be highly amusing and
get a good laugh out of them every time I read them. Keep up the good work ;)!
Steve- I highly recommend that you use the Copper Peptides and Emu oil to help
facilitate the healing of your needled areas. Denise had some great success
with this and I think you can too, providing that these areas are needled
correctly and penetrate deeply enough to break up those damaged collagen
bands.Peace out and God bless...
-Eric
To: John H. -- Mystery, 21:30:47 07/16/03 WedJohn, I totally agree with your post. I posted earlier saying 'What the h***
is needling dermabrasion'?I'm sick of these people who try to take advantage of people looking for a
solution.As per my prior post, needling and dermabrasion have NOTHING to do with each
other. Dermabrasion is a legitimate procedure involving an 'abrader' and
removes the epidermis and part of the dermis, allowing the skin to re-grow.Needling is ?????
Same thing goes for 'micro-dermabrasion'. If you want 'micro-dermabrasion',
just exfoliate using something like apricot scrub, and don't try to get people
suckered into thinking it is the same as a full dermabrasion.
VS -- Denise1, 21:08:48 07/16/03 WedYeah, I'm the same person.
I personally wouldn't recommend purchasing a machine and doing it to yourself.
I think it should only be done by a trained professional.Here's what I would do if I were you. I'd look at permanent makeup artists in
your state and try to locate one close to you, and e-mail them. That's how I
found Lilian, the lady who did my needling. I found her name in a database of
people who did permanent makeup in my state, and e-mailed her. She e-mailed
back and said that she had been trained in needling at a training seminar, but
that she had never done it herself. I actually convinced her to do it on me,
and to even experiment a little on technique if she wanted.That's how I found my lady. I called permanent makeup people here in my town,
but none knew what I was talking about.But I WOULD NOT do this on myself.
Oh yeah, I hope you got it straight with the differences in the peptides. You
should start out with the cp serum, and after 4-6 weeks, go up to the SUPER
serum. Since you are already on Retin A, you really should do very well.I did o.k. with the regular serum, but have gotten much quicker results with
the super serum.
VS -- Denise1, 21:05:03 07/16/03 WedYeah, I'm the same person.
I personally wouldn't recommend purchasing a machine and doing it to yourself.
I think it should only be done by a trained professional.Here's what I would do if I were you. I'd look at permanent makeup artists in
your state and try to locate one close to you, and e-mail them. That's how I
found Lilian, the lady who did my needling. I found her name in a database of
people who did permanent makeup in my state, and e-mailed her. She e-mailed
back and said that she had been trained in needling at a training seminar, but
that she had never done it herself. I actually convinced her to do it on me,
and to even experiment a little on technique if she wanted.That's how I found my lady. I called permanent makeup people here in my town,
but none knew what I was talking about.But I WOULD NOT do this on myself.
Oh yeah, I hope you got it straight with the differences in the peptides. You
should start out with the cp serum, and after 4-6 weeks, go up to the SUPER
serum. Since you are already on Retin A, you really should do very well.I did o.k. with the regular serum, but have gotten much quicker results with
the super serum.
- -- John H., 06:12:44 07/16/03 Wed--------------This was a reply in another board. It contains some more
info.------------------
"JUST because you have found something that works for you doesn't mean that
there aren't other methods that work for others"Sorry but how did you came so easily to this conclusion? Did I say something
about eg dermabrasion (and its variants dermasanding,dermaplaning) or chemical
peels or subcision?As for the other things that you name methods and I call simply CRAP. If by
chance happens some time to open a book like "Fitzpatrick's Dermatology In
General Medicine" and go to the section of Dermatologic Surgery you will read
many things about dermabrasion lasers and peels. But about eg Needling? Samely
if it happens to you to open a book of Cosmetic Dermatology you ll find useful
things about peels and topicals like Retinoids. But copper peptides?--I hope you understand what i say since my English are not of the highest
level.--Now for the "methods" you mentioned one-by-one :
Needling. Worthless. It doesnt make any big harm,the truth is, since is not an
agressive method. But what are the benefits: Minimal (not none, minimal).
Still of course the method is crap. What actually needling resembles is the
following:
----An infinite number of punching with the needles would be equivalent with a
bad quality light resurfacing. THATS ALL WITH THAT NEEDLING.----
N-LITE: The area of non-ablative resurfacing concentrates extensive research
only with the exception that is still EXPERIMENTAL. (and you mentioned one of
the first devices in the field). You must know that medicine is not like other
sciences, in the way that new methods replace the older ones. Statistical
evaluation is always needed to prove the efficacy of a method and its ability
to replace a proven and effective older. Of course there are always people who
get excited and rush like being blind in everything new is heard.
But thanks to them historical statistics can be formed to be evaluated
afterwards by the wise, who with calmness (and with their skin still intact)
easily select the best and without taking great risks or loosing money.CP: Or how a biologist with a phd built an internet site and made money by the
ignorant. The story here is the same as with other craps like elicina exoderm
etc etc. The ingredients of success are very simple:1. Build a net site with as many info on scarring you can put. Explain to the
uninformed things that he hears for the first time like collagen remodeling
and the phases of wound healing ETC ETC.2.Let it run. What happens then? Many people with scarring problems perform
daily searches on engines like google and other. The more one learns the more
complex keywords he uses to search. Not very late his eye fall to one of these
CRAPS. He reads the BS. He sees one-two photos. He is starting to beleive that
what he sees is SCIENCE. AND HE BYUS THE CRAP.3. Often some get helped by such products by INDIRECT ways (eg by the
moisturizing effect of the CRAP) and give further boost to its popularity.
News are spreading very fast to such places like this (see for example the
popularity of needling). The final result is that some get rich and the ACNE
SCARRED REMAIN ACNE SCARRED. sad but true.
Differin question -- Mary, 04:14:26 07/16/03 WedDoes anyone know please whether Differin (a retinoid) is as effective as Retin
A for reducing existing acne scarring? Thanks.
Needles and Homepage -- vs, 02:56:27 07/16/03 WedI am still working on that webpage..my god its hard to create a page... i dont
know what i'm doing...
as far as the tattoo machine goes...now i'm more confused than ever... tattoo
artists i contacted and talked to online through AOL told me its not a good
idea to do this, none of them were helpfull, its like they didnt even care to
help me, one even said to me "dont discrace the industry and the art of
tattooing." I was like "um okay bye" He made me wanna cry, how rude he was !Ok so i'm getting miked messages from tattoo artists and now i have no clue
which machine to buy, what kind of needles I need. etc etc.
VS web page? -- Patsy, 02:12:43 07/16/03 WedYou mentioned your web page? Do you have a link?
VS thanks -- Patsy, 02:11:09 07/16/03 WedThanks again and please let us know how the home needling goes. You could
e-mail Frank from Transitions with questions about how to do self needling. He
is very kind, caring and generous in offering info about needling.http://www.transitionspmc.com/
Dear Patsy And My web page -- vs, 01:30:20 07/16/03 WedPatsy when I went to see sfs famous Dr. James Romano...1 of 8 drs who are
using artecoll in clinical trials, he put me on 1 percent Retin A...the
strongest retin A. he said on patients with acne scars, the 1 percent form of
retin A used over a long period of time with extensive peeling of the skin,
gives the best results for scarring. I switched to 1 percent about 4 months
ago, from the weaker .05 and my skin has deffinately smoothed out more...but
i'm red and flaky looking all the time.
Denise Tattoo Machine -- vs, 01:27:08 07/16/03 Wedok people i'm totally crazy, but I think i'm going to order a tattoo machine.
how crazy are we? we dont even have any true medical data behind this and we
are buying tattoo machines to tattoo our faces...my lord...i guess we are
desperate ! I just want to know what machine to buy, some say get an inline
machine with the needles lined up.. but that patrick guy says his machine is 8
needles in a circle...so confused !!!
people help me to find the best machine.. maybe this is our answer to acne
scars !!!
VS -- Patsy, 23:49:48 07/15/03 TueThank you for the information. I guess I will give Retin a another try.
I too am considering purchasing my own tatoo machine online. There is someone
on another board named Patrick who purchased one online for 183.00, he has some
before and afters he posted too. Maybe you should talk to him about the
details?
Thank you again!
Needling vs Subcision & CRAZY ME -- amez, 20:28:34 07/15/03 TueGod, that sounds like something I'd do, but it also sounds very risky. I've
called about five different tatoo parlors in Sarasota and they all don't know
what needling is. I've encouraged some to look on the Internet and get back to
me, but I'm not sure that I want to be the guinea pig for these people. I
mean, there's got to be some sort of skill involved, right? How much is the
tatoo gun, anyway? Maybe you can get certified in doing this and then you'd be
able to help those on the board nearest you.I sympathize with people on this board who don't get responses. I wish I could
tell everyone who's looking for needlers exactly where to go. I did live in
San Francisco after college for about four years and know of a place in the
Castro called the Gauntlet. They did lots of piercings, possibly tatoos. Maybe
you could start there. As for ordering cp serum, the toll free number is
800-405-1912.
SP serum..Super CP..Super COP..Trireduction -- vs, 20:17:38 07/15/03 Tuesomeone needs to explain to me the difference between all these..sp
serum..super cop..super cp...trireduction basic..... the website reccomends
trireduction basic for acne scars...whats the difference between that and all
the other cp serums.. what are the different copper strengths in the products?
Needling vs Subcision & CRAZY ME -- vs, 19:37:43 07/15/03 TueOk lots of people from this site and other sites seem to be getting needling
and subcision confused, they seem to think its the same thing. SUBCISION AND
NEEDLING with a tattoo machine are NOT THE SAME procedure.. 2 completely
different thingsOK....now my crazy idea. I know this sounds risky, and totally wacko and
crazy---butt you can buy your own tattoo machine online. I got this crazy idea
to buy my own tattoo machine and try tattooing/needling my face. Gosh i'm
crazy, but I am sooo about to get my credit card and order a tattoo machine.
What you all think?
needling -- charchar, 18:48:00 07/15/03 Tuehi guys and gals, did anyone get needling done in the NY and NJ area??? and do
u know where i can get the super cp serum???
VS - copper peptides -- Maya, 18:00:08 07/15/03 Tuehttp://www.skinbio.com/order2.html
That above link - takes you to the ordering page for copper peptides. If you
really want something special, buy the emu oil too - it's amazing after
subcision and reduced the swelling and pain very quickly.
John H. -- Anna, 17:05:09 07/15/03 TueJohn,
Thank you. It should work now with the link to this message. I forgot my
second "G." So sorry for the trouble. Thanks for the help.Anna
anna -- John H., 09:47:07 07/15/03 TueAnna check your address. It doesnt exist.
Subsicion -- vs, 05:40:35 07/15/03 TueI had my first 2 subsicions performed by Dr.Harris in Campbell/Los Gatos CA at
his private practice. He is a clinical professeur at stanford. He charged 1200
for my first subsicion with dermasanding, then my second subsicion and sanding
he charged 600--but never sanded--said i didnt need another sanding--so he
kinda ripped me off I feel.
My 3rd and 4th subsicions were performed by Dr.Gladstone at Stanford.
Gladstone also performed my TCA peel, and spot laser treatments, which he did
for free. Dr.Gladstone and Harris both know eachother from stanford, harris
volunteers at stanford dermatology sometimes--but has his own practice in
campbell/los gatos ca.
I would have to say both Drs are great, Harris has written books on acne scar
revision and teaches techniques at stanford. Gladstone is Head of dermatology
at stanford. So you cant go wrong with either one. I would have to say though,
in my opinion that Dr.Gladstone is more caring for his patients, he just seems
to have a better heart.
Ok why isnt anyone answering any of my questions, i'm answering everyone elses
questions.
VS SUBCISION -- Mikey, 05:16:10 07/15/03 TueThanks for your response how much did it cost you and where did you have the
procedure done
Mikey -- vs, 03:42:14 07/15/03 Tuesubsicion was deffinately worth it, it is one of the only true dermatological
surgical procedures proven to improve acne scars. Subsicion also known as
undermining is really the only real acne scar revision surgery available,
besides punch grafts and exision. I had great results, some scars filled up
almost completely, even some major deep deep scars. You wont see great results
with just 1 treatment, you need several, usually 3-5.
VS subcision -- MIkey, 03:16:31 07/15/03 TueVS you say that you had 4 subcision, what kind of results did you see and was
it worth it?
SkinBio Copper site Making me CRAZY -- vs, 02:58:09 07/15/03 TueOk www.skinbiology.com is making me go crazy, I feel like i'm reading the same
stuff over and over again, and going in circles. That site is so badly put
together, and some info on the site is medically incorrect. Who the heck is
this Dr. Pickart? He called needling "subciscion." I quote "needling with a
tatoo artits gun also known as subcision" Ok i dont know where this dr is
getting his info from, but subcision is totally different from needling, it
doesnt even use a tatoo artists gun, it uses a special needle. I've had 4
courses of subsicion..trust me its not needling...i dont know why he calls it
needling.
Ok and i'm trying to order cp serum, but i cant find any page on
www.skinbiology.com to order the stuff. Now i'm even wondering if should order
it, the web site has some false medical claims in there. Makes me wonder. But
then again some people on here say they have good results with it. Hmmm i'm so
confused.
STEVE ??? -- VS, 22:19:06 07/14/03 MonHi steve,
where did you get your needling done at? how much did it cost? any side
effects or unusual scarring from needling? did you go to a tattoo artist,,did
the artist use a tatoo gun or hand tool?Are you the same steve that had exoderm performed? if so how were your exoderm
results?
Skin Needling SF Bay Area Please HELP!!! -- vs, 21:44:24 07/14/03 MonHi...
I really need help..anyone who has had skin needling in sf bay area...please
contact me at sanjoseskin@yahoo.com
I want to know if this procedure works good, what side effects it has? can it
leave you scarred even worse? who is the best person in sf bay area to go
to...to have needling done. How much does it cost. etc etc !!! please contact
me..i want to get this done ASAP..if its not someting dangerous to do.All the help will be appreciated!!
LoL @ Fake Patient Steve -- Steve, 21:44:10 07/14/03 MonWhoever is still spreading this Fake patient Steve Crap needs to stop...LOL..
its really laughable actually.. Haha after how long people still dont believe
im legit?Haha.. Well anways..
I want to give you guys an update on my needling.. its been 1 1/2 months since
my needling procedure, and i have gotten slight improvement in certain scars..
My most prone scarred area is my right temple area..THe scars really bug me
there.. One of the larger flatter scars has good improvement from what i can
see.. The others even the tiny ones havent responded as well..Im going to get another one done next month..But this time im going to
purchage the cp serum and that oil that beth recommends so much.. So hopefully
ill get even better results...Keep the Faith everyone!
John H -- vs, 21:39:13 07/14/03 MonWell John i'm glad your results with erbium were fantastic. Maybe someone will
read your postings and take the chance with laser and get good results like
you did. I guess its good to hear both sides of the story, the majority with
poor results from lasers, and the few minority with good results.
You mentioned something about dr rullan and his fake patients steve? I too was
a skeptic of Dr.Rullan and exoderm. What did you mean by your comments, what
was your input on dr.rullan and exoderm.
I personally think exoderm causes more harm than good, many drs have told me
there is no way to buffer phenol and prevent it from causing HYPOpigmentation,
the way the exoderm website claims. If this was true exoderm would be more
widely used..
anyways john h your thoughts?
To John H -- vs, 21:37:12 07/14/03 MonWell John i'm glad your results with erbium were fantastic. Maybe someone will
read your postings and take the chance with laser and get good results like
you did. I guess its good to hear both sides of the story, the majority with
poor results from lasers, and the few minority with good results.
You mentioned something about dr rullan and his fake patients steve? I too was
a skeptic of Dr.Rullan and exoderm. What did you mean by your comments, what
was your input on dr.rullan and exoderm.
I personally think exoderm causes more harm than good, many drs have told me
there is no way to buffer phenol and prevent it from causing HYPOpigmentation,
the way the exoderm website claims. If this was true exoderm would be more
widely used..
anyways john h your thoughts?
- -- John H., 18:37:15 07/14/03 MonOhh! come on! What is really happening here is that i help people.
The sad truth Mrs Denise is that you probably will be stuck in here and the
next year and the next after and so on.While i have escaped from the trap (i had 6 whole months to write something
and i made a return only to help people).I wrote my update in order to help the people leave that CRAPS THAT DONT HELP
and stay with the real medical discipline called AESTHETIC SURGERY if you know
it. Not many that have good results write on these boards and i wanted to be
one of those.And as i wrote my letter waiting for others to evaluate my words there you
come quickly to mess everything up giving value and comparing true medical
practices with CRAPS. And as a last resort having no other thing to say you
write "I see others that 5-7 years after their scars return". PEOPLE LIKE YOU
ARE A GRAVE DANGER. Someone could benefit from my words and you come to cover
it all. YOU ARE AN IDIOT.Copper peptides Copper peptides Copper peptides. Next year you ll be talking
again for that then you ll find something like Elicina,blue peels,power peels,
these multivits, that multivits, needlings, vinegars, still experimental
methods like nonablative resurfacings, and the list is endless. One thing is
certain: YOU LL BE HERE FOR A LONG TIME.I dont plan to write anything else. I feel sad cause out there there are
people who need help but with idiots like you its very difficult. I am sorry.
Patholigical outburtsts and disrespect -- Denise1, 17:25:50 07/14/03 MonOh boy! GOODIE, GOODIE!!! Another person who comes to an acne scar board and
cusses, disrespects, and immaturely screams to the top of his lungs at other
people about how dumb they are!First of all, Mr. Johnnie, I have no idea who you are and have no recollection
of you. Second of all, YOU WERE THE ONE DISRESPECTING OTHER PEOPLE'S
EXPERIENCES with NEEDLING *AND* COPPER PEPTIDES.I'm not sure what your problem is, or why you have to scream, disrespect,
cuss, and generally act like a child, but quite frankly, if you read down this
board, you will see many good testimonies with copper peptides AND NEEDLING.I don't know why YOU or people LIKE YOU come to acne scar boards and disrupt
the flow of things, or why you have to lash out at dissent, but please save
your Stalinistic rantings and ravings toward anyone who would (GASP!) disagree
with your point of view for someone else.You were the one who came on here and dissed people who have had good results
with needling and copper peptides (SOME OF WHICH HAVE HAD ERBIUM NO DOUBT) and
asserted your opinion on their stupidity (people like myself, Greg, Kit, and
others).Seems like you can rant, rave, lash out, demand that you are the only right
person on the planet, and I on the other hand, make a pretty benign comment by
anyone's standards, and you carry on like a madman, lashing out in a
dysfunctional, pathological way.This is a scar board for people who are looking for answers. Out of reading
about 30-40 different people who've had resurfacing done, you are one of about
5 who were happy with their outcome. And guess what?! I THINK IT'S GREAT THAT
YOU HAD A GOOD OUTCOME! CONGRATULATIONS! IT WORKED FOR YOU! WONDERFUL!
FANTASTIC!!!It hasn't worked for OTHERS, THOUGH!
For the life of me, I don't understand people who act like this. Honestly, no
one got aggressive or disrespectful to you in any way. I'm not sure why you
cannot take dissent or why you have to lash out at anyone who disagrees with
you, but I wish you'd learn to disagree in an amicable way and stop dissing
people who've had good results with other procedures.I won't be answering any of your immature outbursts or replies so please just
save it already.
Erbium -- Anna, 17:18:24 07/14/03 MonJohn, would you be so kind as to provide me with the name and location of your
doctor? If you don't want to post please just link to my name and send me a
personal message.Thank you so much!
Anna
Reply to VS -- John H., 14:56:52 07/14/03 Mondear vs,
I agree and disagree at the same time with you.1. I maybe be lucky but the luck isnt that i have scarring or skin that
responds well to laser. My luck is that i found the doc. Explain: A girl who
works in the clinic and closes the appointments had also acne scars visible
only by a trained eye, altough she didnt tell me anything about her (that she
had scars or that she did something) i understood by our conversations that
she was very happy from the operation. Also a doctor who works there after
seeing the amazing results made an appoinment for her cousin. Also the doc was
very sure about what he was doing He said to me that he even performed laser
to his wife for scars (minor). Also at the day of my surgery i girl was there
for a check up. the doc called me to see her. I dont know how she was before
but what i saw was absolute perfection and she was very happy. doc was
examining her with a strong spot light and the skin was perfect. He said to me
that he had performed over 1500 resurfacings. All of these to relax me since i
had paid very earlier. In fact it was after i made my decision and paid that
the doc told me all these to relax me and make me feel comfortable. I remember
saying to him. Will we get a 30% doc? is it possible? He laughed and said we
will get a 60 maybe 70. To put it simple he is my saviour.
2. As for dermabrasion. I still believe that dermabrasion is better than
laser. Explain: If i was in the US i would simply made an appointmetn with one
of the best (eg Yarborough). but the hands of the surgeon play a central role
in dermabrasion so finding the good one isnt so easy.Why dermabrasion is better? Because there is thermal damage in the lasers.
What that means? That with the laser the doc must be more superficial (eg
wrinkles dont require so much depth)But if we limit the depth of abrasion? Then lasers are better.
Why? There is no physical contact with the laser. As my doctor said
dermabrasion is "traumatic" meaning that as the spin wheels it grabs the edges
of scars creating some damage. With the laser you have a perfect wound a
perfect shaving of the skin.
-----some things to remember.We dont allow a scab to form this would sacrifice many cells and there is a
tendency for scars to reform (modern wound care actually 40 years old not so
modern).
Results must be obvious rigth after the laser. If you have sharply edged scars
you will notice better that there is a shaving of skin down to a level. this
is the first part (and the most important).
Second part is the remodeling which occurs gradually and slowly. We had a
conversation with my doc about computers one time and he said to me: With this
(meaning the laser) i trick nature. Like a computer the body sends more
"matter" to the areas that are depressed in order to elevate them like the
surrounding.I LOVE HIM HE IS THE BEST.
Denise1 -- John H., 14:26:08 07/14/03 MonAlso i add here a reply to denise1 here known as denise2 i think. Check voy if
u want.
ARE YOU SERIOUS? YOU MUST BE CRAZY. Everytime i read a post from you i get
angry with your nonsences."The reason why most times laser resurfacing just flat out doesn't work or at
best gives minimal results is because it simply doesn't address the issue of
scar tissue" Excuse me? Sorry, but you are very confused."I've read at least 8 reports on these boards in the past few years that
people will have laser resurfacing, maybe get a 20-35% improvement rate, then
the scars seem to "come back" after 5-7 years. It seems to me that the reason
is that the underlying scar tissue hasn't been dealt with" Yeah it seems to
you and it is wrong ofcourse."I just LOVE IT when people slam procedures on this board and have never had
it done....AMAZING" I dont have to eat s**t to know if they taste good!
You copied exactly what VS said only without any fact as he did. Having
nothing else to do you go around from forum to forum trying to convince
yourself that you get results by convincing the others that you do. Enough of
these bullshit CPserums and other craps we have heard from you so far. OK you
are desperate and crazy dont mislead other uninformed people in here. People
like you make great damage. STOP PLEASE STOP.I must continue i cant stop.
So dear Denise if i remember right you were one of the first to write against
my postings whenever i was reporting something about the operation. You were
there to say that "lasers do not work" when before 10 minutes i was reporting
good results. Sorry, but have you tried it foryourself as you say for me about
needling, babe? NO of course not. Why do you do this? You dont have the money?
Your scarring is SO BAD?
Still with acne? BDD maybe? Who knows really.AND if i remember right i was the first to recommend to poor Kit that he
doesnt need to go to Israel for that Exoderm crap, always with logical
explanations. As expected he had 0 improvement if not damage.
AND you are so i**ot that you ate the s**t about exoderm that this Dr rullan
told you about pretending to be a patient, steve and others.i am bored enough.
Needling in NY/NJ -- charchar, 10:14:37 07/14/03 Mondoes anyone know where i can get needling done in the NJ/NY area??? and where
can i purchase the Super CP Serum??
Thanx in advance -=)
microdermabrasion question -- julie, 03:35:54 07/14/03 Monhi, i am hoping someone here could share with me their experiences with
microdermabrasion. i have mild acne scars and my face is clear except for the
red spots which aren't pitted scars, i get excited easily and my face just
turn into red dots. i have had 10 chemical peels and later IPL done 4 times .
i think the IPL helped a bit maybe 20% and the chemical peels didn't work
except make my skin ultra sensitive and before the chemical peels, my skin was
actually quite okay.i really hope someone could share with me their experiences with
microdermabrasion, will it work for red spots? and after the procedure, will
my skin be incredibly red (bruised) how long does it take for my skin to feel
okay again?thank you so much. i hope everyone finds the way that works for them. thanks.
-julie
VS -- Denise1, 00:48:33 07/14/03 MonVS; I just wanted to back you up in your post about Erbium. The reason why
most times laser resurfacing just flat out doesn't work or at best gives
minimal results is because it simply doesn't address the issue of scar tissue.I've read at least 8 reports on these boards in the past few years that people
will have laser resurfacing, maybe get a 20-35% improvement rate, then the
scars seem to "come back" after 5-7 years. It seems to me that the reason is
that the underlying scar tissue hasn't been dealt with.Oh yeah, regarding the CP Serum, it might sound like "marketing genius", but
believe me....the Super CP Serum and SuperCop are both for scar revision and
supah dupah STRONG STUFF. The regular serum helped some stretch marks I had as
well as removed a skin tag I had. The stuff works. Dr. Pickart says that the
products on the market besides SB are using 80's technology in their copper
peptides. Plus, he gives a breakdown of the percentage of how much stronger
the SB copper peptides are as they have been tested against other brands.I am pretty amazed myself at the scars that are filling in in 8-10 weeks;
scars that I DIDN'T HAVE NEEDLED, using the SUPER CP Serum (along with Retin
A).So anyway, that's my buck fifty.
I'm glad that some people had good success with Erbium, but that's awfully
rare.I just LOVE IT when people slam procedures on this board and have never had it
done....AMAZING.
VS -- Denise1, 00:45:50 07/14/03 MonVS; I just wanted to back you up in your post about Erbium. The reason why
most times laser resurfacing just flat out doesn't work or at best gives
minimal results is because it simply doesn't address the issue of scar tissue.I've read at least 8 reports on these boards in the past few years that people
will have laser resurfacing, maybe get a 20-35% improvement rate, then the
scars seem to "come back" after 5-7 years. It seems to me that the reason is
that the underlying scar tissue hasn't been dealt with.Oh yeah, regarding the CP Serum, it might sound like "marketing genius", but
believe me....the Super CP Serum and SuperCop are both for scar revision and
supah dupah STRONG STUFF. The regular serum helped some stretch marks I had as
well as removed a skin tag I had. The stuff works. Dr. Pickart says that the
products on the market besides SB are using 80's technology in their copper
peptides. Plus, he gives a breakdown of the percentage of how much stronger
the SB copper peptides are as they have been tested against other brands.I am pretty amazed myself at the scars that are filling in in 8-10 weeks;
scars that I DIDN'T HAVE NEEDLED, using the SUPER CP Serum (along with Retin
A).So anyway, that's my buck fifty.
I'm glad that some people had good success with Erbium, but that's awfully
rare.I just LOVE IT when people slam procedures on this board and have never had it
done....AMAZING.
Erbium Laser and Other Opinions -- VS, 23:36:19 07/13/03 SunDear John H.
I am glad you had great results with the erbium laser, however I honestly do
think your great results are rare. You just happend to get lucky and your skin
reacted good to the erbium laser, producing good acne scar revision. You are
in the lucky minority
However, I must also note that many Drs--Dermatologists and Plastic surgeons
who just 5 yrs ago reccomended co2/erbium for acne scars--are no longer using
lasers for acne scar revision, unless your scars are not very deep.
I've talked to many top Dr's in SF bay area and Beverly Hills who now say that
current evidence shows that traditional dermabrasion has much more positive
outcome than laser resurfacing for acne scarring--if your going to go through
the resurfacing route for scars. I even saw one of the bay areas top plastic
surgeons. Dr. Romano. Who is only 1 of 8 drs in the united states chosen to do
artecoll trials. He even told me its unfortunate that I wasted my money on
laser resurfacing for acne scars, he said he was like many drs who used lasers
on acne scarring when lasers first become very popular, but now he WILL NOT
USE THEM on acne scar patients..simply because his past patients did not see
any real improvent for the high cost. Even one of my current dermatologists
who is a Clinical Professor at Stanford University flat out said "lasers do
not work for acne scarring" I went to him about 2 yrs ago, I was very sad and
depressed with the erbium. I went to him to perfrom the much stronger co2
laser and he said "i will not use any lasers on acne scars they simply dont
work" he was the first dr that introduced me to subsicion and performed
dermasanding on me. He said that lasers just DO NOT abrade the skin in a way
effective enough for acne scars. That the only true resurfacing that helps
scars is sanding the skin, which causes a different kind of abrasive behavior
than lasers.
If you've had good results with lasers, then great ! But the majority of
people who have had full face co2 or erbium laser resurfacing know it just
doesnt usually work for acne scars. The medical field is now figuring this out
too. Drs and patients were just too fast to jump on the wagon without any real
evidence when lasers first came out. Its great for wrinkles but not acne scars
new evidence shows.
Also I dont think needling should be ruled out as crap. I am listening to
people who have had it done with GREAt GREAT RESULTS, i havent heard one bad
thing about needling yet- except that more than 1 treatment is usually needed
for good results. and its cheap! I'm considering needling , and calling
something that you have no first hand experience with crap..is not good. Just
my two sense and opinion. thanks
Erbium Laser Update -- John H., 22:12:02 07/13/03 SunI wanted to write a letter about my improvement around that time and as i red
the previous letter i felt forced to do it now.
As you may know i had an Erbium resurfacing before some time. Actually its
almost 8 months by then. I think its enough time. I am very bored to read such
things from other posters like "Well I have seen many happy people at first
but after some time they disappear (meaning that they are finally
disappointed)" or "things may be good at first but after some time... blah
blah blah" and other bullshit like these. So here i am after 8 months to bring
you the news.First of all resurfacing works. Not only works but it can accomplish wonders
(thats my case). You want percents? I ll do that also.My background of treatments:
-Series of mild TCA peels with Retin-A inbetween.
Results: Nothing. Actually it worsen the situation.
Causes: I didnt know much back then and the doc didnt explained how the
procedure worked. I thought that the results must be immediate after the peel.
So i was disappointed and i stressed my skin also with harsh cleansers and
such. Also the scarring wasnt so mild to benefit from these light treatments.
Also i was smoking and not exercising and not eat well. (The doc was one of
the best derms.)
-C02 laser. I was wise and i tried a test area of about 5x5cm. If i was
committed to this idiot for a full face now i would have destroyed my face.
Results: Worsening of the situation
Causes: The doc (plastic surgeon) although very famous and reputed he was an
amateur on laser resurfacing so maybe he found it useful to learn on me. His
equipment also was very old (no scanner). He made half an hour for only this
area. He didnt give any directions except for the sunscreen. So the wound
wasnt treated right after the operation. Worsening of the scars and textural
alteration. I was VERY depressed then as i began to see the problem now as
TOTALLY unsolvable (as many who write here see it). I wasnt also in the best
physical condition that i could that time (still smoking no exercise)And finally the salvation.
-Erbium laser.
-Results: Miraculous.
-Causes: The doc (plastic surgeon) does only resurfacings. So he has extensive
experience. He has modern equipmnent. He likes his job and he is a
perfectionist. He is (relatively) conservative. After the operation except
from the predefined orders he made me feel free to call him any time. So we
have spent totally some hours on the phone and in the clinic. When i was
stressed (especially in the difficult times after operation) he was always
open to explain me that things go ok and all were fine etc etc. I forgot to
tell you that the cost for all these was 600euros (=600$).(central region of
cheeks). Amazing? Actually i have no economical problems i could spent easily
10000euros or much more for these results.
Comments: So to synopsize the key factors for a good outcome:1. Be in good shape. Exercise dont smoke eat well.
2. Pick the right doc. (this is sometimes difficult and it contains an element
of luck also.)The main cause that people dont get good results is that the doc isnt
conservative. in this situation less is more. even if you have deep scars the
doc must remain conservative Actually the more the scarring the more
conservation is needed since the atrophied skin cant react so good. (This just
another wound on your face and serious damage that can put you in an endless
nightmare for the rest of your life is a possibility.) Dont be depressed by
that. You may repeat your operation as needed.
Forget the bullshit like needlings and such craps. There is a tendency on
these boards to exaggerate such bullshit like needlings and to underestimate
the efficacy of the real medical methods.To the results by numbers: the least i can put is a 30%. I cant give less than
that in any case. The maximum is a 50% but i think its somewhat far from
reality although some have said sure you have a 50%. NOW DONT BE SO FAST and
say "30% percent?? You call this a miracle??". I ll explain shortly 30%
percent is 33% percent or by fraction 1/3. SO IF THERE WERE 3 PIECES of
scarring that should be removed from the skin before it could reach its
previous state, THE ONE IS GONE. This is tremendous. In the same manner 50% is
1/2 and means that 1 of the 2 pieces is gone. These are the numbers. To give
you a taste of the improvement i could put an 80% if i was using the numbers
as most people do (but this should mean a 4/5 improvement which if you think
it is almost complete restoration or in another way you could think: "what i
see now must be multiplied by 4 to give me my previous condition. If for
example now i see a scar that is say 1mm deep it was 4mm before." Sorry but
thats not the case with me.Qualitative judgment of the results: I see a new face. In many mirrors where
there obvious deformations now there is perfection, or to say it with other
words the number of mirrors that my face looks perfect is increased. I think
there will always be a mirror that something will be visible. My parents
consider the problem solved. My sister is enthusiased with the results and so
are my friends and other relatives. Its funny to see people who know me to
react like this: At first when they see me act normally but after 5-10 seconds
they turn their head to see me again as something that they had in their mind
about my image isnt consistent with what they just saw.My scars werent mild.
Dont forget that resurfacing laser or dermabrasion (i dont include chemical
peels) is a POWERFUL method. It can give you excellent results but it can make
very serious damage. You may hate the way you look now and think that it cant
be any more worse but it can. So if you dont want to end like robert davi be
patient and search for the right doctor. Also forget that craps that
unknowledgeable people in these forums reccommend.
Erbium laser -- vs, 20:07:21 07/13/03 SunYes, the erbium was a huge mistake. It cost me 5 grand, and I can honestly say
I did not even notice a 1 percent improvemant. My jerk of a dr even went deep
with the erbium and still no improvement, he kept saying "wait a yr wait a yr
for the collagen to grow." i waited a yr and still nothing, then after a yr he
said "well the laser didnt work, we can do punch grafts" and he wanted to
charge me 2 grand for punch grafts. Now i know why drs who use procedures like
lasers and exoderm say "wait a yr for the collegan to grow." They want you to
wait a yr, because after the 12 month mark you cant file a law suit agaisnt
them to get your money back. In california you only have 12 months to file a
suit. Thats just my opinion maybe i'm wrong.
Of course your skin improves i'm sure within the 1 yr, but if you dont see a
huge noticable improvement after 6 months, another 6 months wont make a huge
difference..just my opinion again.
Take care
erbium laser resurfacing vs -- Mikey, 16:48:02 07/13/03 SunVs you said that the erbium laser was a big mistake I was wondering why you
thought that?? Was it because you did not see any improvements from the
procedure??
Skin Biology CP -- vs, 01:29:48 07/13/03 SunHey,
I been reading bits and pieces of www.skinbiology.com to me that web site
basically tries to say its product is better than other companies coper
peptides. Of course they would say that to sell their brand of product, but
has anyone here used skinbios products in comparison to another companies
copper peptides?
wonder how it compares in the real world with other brands of cp.
To Patsy -- vs, 01:25:51 07/13/03 SunHi Patsy,
Well I'm 22 yrs old, I've had 1 full face erbium laser resurfacing (big
bistake!), 1 dermabrasion, 1 full face 30 percent tca peel, and a few touch-up
dermabrasions and spot lasers.
I'm sure age has something to do with it--i'm assuming the younger a person
is--the more likely their skin will heal quicker.
I've never tried any of those other acids you mentioned. Also I been using
retin A for many yrs now off and on. However, I was really frustrated after my
dermabrasion. For a whole yr my face looked like a red waxy grainy textured
orange peel. I was so pissed-- and my dr had told me not to use retin A while
my skin texture was like that. Well one day i decided not to listen to him and
tried retin-A, after few months the grainy texture went away. Now maybe it
wasnt the retin A that helped, maybe it went away with time, But I have this
feeling that I totally let my skin get so tight-red-peely-flaky from the
retin-A---that it just peeled away that top layer of grainy skin. I dont know
this is my theory, maybe i'm wrong.
My grainy waxy look still comes back on certain days, like if i use a alpha
hydroxy product, or if i'm under the sun for a long time. I think once you put
your skin through this much damage i.e. lasers/sanding this is just a side
effect, its prolly a type of scarrin that results. I've told like 3 different
dermatologists about this waxy grainy orange peel skin, and they look at me
like i'm crazy, like i'm making it up. I honestly think lots of drs dont know
much more than what they learned out of their books.
anyways, My advice patsy to you is this, stop using any acidic type product
I.E. alpha hydroxy or glycolic acids. Stay out of the sun DEFFINATELY. If you
see the retin A is not working, then stop using it. You might want to try a
homepeal 4000, that kind of helped me..but its really expensive, and only
improvement I saw was in the grainy texture not scars. Also try changing your
facial cleanser, dont use something with salycilic acid in it, try "Clearisil
Daily Face wash" with "triclosan" as the main ingrediant. I love this
cleanser, but its not good for people with really dry skin.
Also my theory on this waxy look is this. I believe its a form of scar that
forms after the skin has seen trama..such as sanding or laser. I believe its a
form of hypertrophic scar or a form of a keloid that maybe drs dont know
about. Because it looks red,,flat, and slightly raised over the face, very
slightly raised! This sounds like a hypertrophic scar to me. Maybe thats why
my dr prescribed desowen--steroid. Try getting a prescripion of desown and
apply it to the area, dont use for prolonged periods..it will thin your skin.
But desowen deffinately helped also!
ok hope i was of help.
VS thank you and more questions -- Patsy, 18:57:47 07/12/03 SatThank you for taking the time to tell me about your experience, I appreciate
that very much.Its been over five years since my laser treatment, I did not start to see the
grainy textural problems until recently. Directly after the treatment I would
say my skin looked pretty normal. How many treatments have you had? (you
mentioned after each of your resurfacings). How old are you? Maybe age has
something to do with my texture?I tried retin-a in the past and it seems to make my pores look bigger and more
spread out. Have you tried other acids such as mandelic, lactic or malic?Would you say that you got rid of the textural problems completely after two
months of retin-a or did you also have to wait a year or two?
Morning VS night -- vs, 06:13:39 07/12/03 Satyour scars look better in the morning vs night time, i think becuase in the
morning your face is slightly swollen. This is natural for every human being,
when we wake in the morning our face is swollen and eyes puffy, so maybe the
swelling of your face makes your scars fill out a bit. By night time, the
swelling has gone down and scars look more noticable. I have experienced this
my self.
Better looking scars in the morning -- v, 06:06:31 07/12/03 SatWhen you sleep you retain moisture as the day goes on you loose this moisture.
Also lying down you get more fluid into your facial skin.
James Swinehart - bad doctor -- Cameron, 05:08:20 07/12/03 SatTo everyone in Colorado, you can add James Swinehart to the list of doctors
that only cares about money. He did a subcission test spot on my cheek and
created a scar that is discolored and elevated (it has been eight months and
it's still there). He knows it's there, but still wants to charge me to fix
the problem he created. Also, when I first saw him, his receptionist told me
I'd get a free consultation, but afterwards they insisted that I pay $70 until
I finally did--exasperated.
Scars in morning vs. night -- Cameron, 05:02:57 07/12/03 SatI read Kit's posting about his scars being more pronounced at night than in
the morning. I experience the same thing, but I don't know why. If I could get
them to look like they do in the morning all the time, I'd have 50% of the
problem fixed. Does anybody know exactly what's going on here. It must have
something to do with sleeping.Please respond somebody! Thanks.
Esthetician in Houston -- Diana Wolfe, 23:51:22 07/11/03 FriStephen in Houston--I highly recommend seeing Allison Zollars at Dr. Norman
Rappaport's office down in Scurlock Tower on Fannin. She has reduced my scars
by about 50% just with chemical peels. I stopped peeling because I had to go
on Accutane, and now I am two years post Accutane and I am going to start
treatments again. Honestly, I would not let anyone else touch my face. They
are the best, and Dr. John Wolf, the head of the Baylor Dermatology Clinic
told me Dr. Rappaport was highly reccommended for facial/laser type surgery.
VS thank you and more questions -- Patsy, 22:56:38 07/11/03 FriThank you for taking the time to tell me about your experience, I appreciate
that very much.Its been over five years since my laser treatment, I did not start to see the
grainy textural problems until recently. Directly after the treatment I would
say my skin looked pretty normal. How many treatments have you had? (you
mentioned after each of your resurfacings). How old are you? Maybe age has
something to do with my texture?I tried retin-a in the past and it seems to make my pores look bigger and more
spread out. Have you tried other acids such as mandelic, lactic or malic?Would you say that you got rid of the textural problems completely after two
months of retin-a or did you also have to wait a year or two?
VS thank you and more questions -- Patsy, 22:55:36 07/11/03 FriThank you for taking the time to tell me about your experience, I appreciate
that very much.Its been over five years since my laser treatment, I did not start to see the
grainy textural problems until recently. Directly after the treatment I would
say my skin looked pretty normal. How many treatments have you had? (you
mentioned after each of your resurfacings). How old are you? Maybe age has
something to do with my texture?I tried retin-a in the past and it seems to make my pores look bigger and more
spread out. Have you tried other acids such as mandelic, lactic or malic?Would you say that you got rid of the textural problems completely after two
months of retin-a or did you also have to wait a year or two?
needling update & a scar support group in every city? -- greg, 14:08:03
07/11/03 Frihey folks,
needling is by far the most cost-effective scar surgery out there now cuz it's
done by a tattoo artist for hundreds of dollars, not thousands.The lady who
did me here in D.C. said to make sure they use a tattoo gun w/ multiple
needles, not just 1.i saw some talk about someone starting a real-life support group in San
Francisco- DO IT!...before & after pics are great, but seeing a real-life
"show & tell" in natural light 2 inches away goes 1 step better...you can
actually *see* someone's improvements up close....here's our group's site if you wanna copycat us:-)
www.geocities.com/grege20815/washdcacnescarsupportgrp.htmlThanks!
Greg
VS -- bob, 07:48:39 07/11/03 FriYou will want to go to skinbiology.com for copper peptides products. There'a
lot to read there; but you should read a good bit of it so that you will know
which products there are best for what you are seeking.
Looking for Esthetican in Houston -- stephenhoutx, 05:47:31 07/11/03 FriLooking for a good esthetician in Houston. I need a deep pore facial. Any
sugesstions.
Copper Peptides? -- VS, 05:12:50 07/11/03 FriEveryone here is talking about copper peptides. I think I will give it a try,
who makes the best copper peptides? what brand/company copper peptides should
I order, and where can i get the best price. Thanks.
Bob -- Mary, 04:29:33 07/11/03 FriThanks for that Bob (actually when I said pitted I think I meant depressed
scar) didn't know there was a distinction - I think by pitted you mean
icepicks. Not sure what a boxcar is though
Cheers
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